Death worries these warped people less than the seating arrangements at the final party to end all parties. Go figure! Once the military starts bending over for every little whiner it will no longer be strong. Uncle Sam cares naught for you. Jonh McCain doesn’t even want you to have decent benefits because he feels you will no longer be a killer sheeple. Get with the program, will ya?

If the Military sways on this issue, then they will have opened Pandoras’ box. This policy has been in place ever since the first military cemetery opened. All Military personell know the option of a burial at these sites and the policies involved. Zwilling is out of line!

The article does not give information regarding exact meaning of “next to”. I have been told spouses are buried in the same plot as their deceased–the spouse’s coffin is placed on top. Thus, no extra land space on either side is used. In this instance, the son was unmarried. As the father also served in the military, I can understand some changes in policy. If the father had not served in the military, I would think otherwise. I would not support the burial of any one else, either.

The actual regulations on the VA website specify that the spouse to be buried in the next plot MUST have also served in the military. Therefore, I get to be buried next to my husband. But if I was not also in the military, I would be buried above or below him-depending on which died first (as are the majority of parent/child burials at Jeff Barracks). Non-dual military couples in which both parties died after (I think)Dec. 1961(or 1962) have been doubled up as well. It seems this individual wants to create a “family plot” at the cemetery. If the VA caves on this then I want the three spots next to me reserved for my military son and daughter (the other is for my husband). But wait, my son’s wife is also in the military-so we need one for her, too. Better reserve the next one over for my daughter’s husband, on the off chance that he might be military. That’s what kind of mess modifying the rules for one individual will lead to. BTW, the above mentioned scenario is not my family, but my sister’s-she’s the “military son’s military wife).

I can’t imagine that burying out-of-sequence poses any financial or significant logistical disadvantages. And it seems reasonable that a veteran should be given extra consideration in situations like this one. Let’s remember that Kurt has not only served his country, but also given his son in exchange for whatever benefits we all realize from the war effort. The real problem here is identifying any benefits from this particular war effort.

If you let this man be buried next to his son, then it would open the door for everybody who had a relative buried at JB to buried alongside them. At that point JB would no longer be a Military Cemetery, just another burying ground for the general pubic. Keep the policy as it stands. And keep JB sacred ground for Military and their Spouses.

They can’t reserve a spot for him, but he can still as a veteran be buried at JB, so he can still be at the same cemetary. I understand wanting to be next to his son, but this policy has been around longer than he has, and this isn’t the first or the last time this will come up.

Slugger will be on shortly to blame W for this. Enjoy her daily rant.

N. Countian: I believe in this case, Kurt and his son are BOTH veterans.

My Dad and I are both eligible to be buried there but have made other arrangements to accommodate the family. Most cemeteries have grave plots for veterans. You don’t have to be in a national cemetery to get the benefits. My Mom is in a private cemetery now with a double head stone that has her name as well as my Dad’s along with military information. Dad is still with us. The veterans administration paid for it. This is an example of how important it is to look ahead and find out what your options are before the time comes.I have family at JB. and they are not together. If this guy should get his way. My two uncles that are there should be with their father that is also there. As I said, you need to look ahead if this is important to you. I personally don’t think I care if my dead body is next to anyone in particular. As long as our souls are together somewhere.

Do your neighbors really matter once you are dead.

Bend the rules for one and you have to do it for all. You’ll have girlfriends wanting spaces next to their high school sweethearts and people wanting their dogs buried next to them. The ruless are what the are.

It sounds like a reasonable request to me, but I think the same practice they use for spouses should apply. Spouses are buried in the same plot, one casket placed on top of the other. For the emotional, it would meet the needs of a veteran who loves his son. For the practical, it would save a spot for a deserving veteran in a cemetary that is quickly running out of space.

I didn’t even know that spouses were buried there. I don’t think that any non veteran should be buried in a military cemetery.

JB FOR ME IS A FAMILY CEMETERY.I HAVE A GRANDFATHER,SISTER,BROTHER INLAW, PARENTS AND BEST FRIEND ALL BURIED THERE. EACH OF THESE PEOPLE ARE BURIED IN DIFFERENT AREAS OF THE CEMETARY. THIS IS A MILITARY CEMETARY AND MILITARY IS A FAMILY. AT SOME POINT MY HUSBAND AND I COULD BE THERE ALSO. WHEN ARRANGEMENTS ARE FIRST MADE IT IS UNDERSTOOD VERY CLEARLY YOU CAN NOT REQUEST A PLACE FOR THAT PERSON OR ANY OTHERS. WHILE THIS MAYBE DIFFICULT FOR THE PERSON MAKING ARRANGEMENTS IT IS ALSO THE SAME AS THIS MILITARY MEMBER HAS EXPERIENCED DURING THEIR SERVICE TIME–REQUESTS ARE FEW, AND TAKE WHAT YOU ARE GIVEN–RULES ARE TO BE FOLLOWED NO QUESTIONS! IF YOU CHOOSE TO BURIED IN A NATIONAL CEMETARY YOU HAVE SAID YOU WILL CONTINUE TO FOLLOW THE RULES OF YOUR MILITARY TIME. LIKE IT OR CHOOSE A PUBLIC CEMETERY AND PAY FOR THE FAMILY PLOT!

There is no doubt that Mr. Zwilling deserves the bests burial. He is one of many who have served this country with PRIDE and HONOR. The cemetery is full of men and women who have served honorably. Although, I’m sure that Jefferson Barracks National Cemetery will do all that they can in order to bury him either beside his son or near his son and still follow the policies and proceedures that have been in place for many years. Even though I feel for Mr. Zwilling and I hear what he is saying, each and every Headstone at Jefferson Barracks represents a Veteran’s story, a situation, a Veteran mother, father, son and/or daughter that has served their country honorable and while each one has their own story, if it is policy for one…it has to be policy for all. I wish the best for Mr. Zwilling. God Bless and Semper Fi

These soldiers have served Israel’s goals well. They paid their price for being white and the jewish vampires will continue sucking blood from the white race. Nothing will stop the jewish supremacists from their goal of world domination this time.

DEBBIE! I BELIEVE YOUR CAPS LOCK BUTTON IS ON!!!!

While I understand Kurt’s desire, I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect the VA to be able to manage requests like this. How can we expect the VA to arrange for the proper placement of deceased veterans when they can’t even properly take care of the veterans who are alive? They are underfunded and understaffed.

Once the democrats take office, they’ll take away even more VA/military funding and give it to lazy people who won’t work.

The policy should be reviewed. Since so many of those killed are so very young, many have not married. The relationship between parent and child is an indescribably close one - why should this young man be buried alone?

Every parent who experiences the death of a child enters a realm of pain unlike any other–more deeply felt than any other known feeling of isolation, aloneness and despair. It seems simple enough to me to accommodate special requests to offer special comfort, encouragement and hope during the remaining days of a parent’s life. How much of an inconvenience does this represent? In Kurt’s case, both the son and the dad will ultimately each occupy a separate lot in the cemetery. If after burying the son, the cemetery administration could simply skip a space before burying the next guy, allowing the dad to be buried in the void when the time comes. It wouldn’t take much effort to orchestrate this effort…..and the dad could live out his life knowing that the premature separation he now experiences is somewhat short-lived.

Can you think of the nightmare of trying to take all the requests from veterans who want to be buried next to their other veteran relatives? Plotting these out while planning future burials would seem to be an enormous undertaking. I can understand the emotions regarding being buried next to your son, but really, when you’re dead do you think it matters? I hope that I’m not hovering around my tombstone after I’m dead, chatting with the rest of the dead around me. If that currently is the case, my whole Christian belief system is in trouble.

As a 20 year Navy veteran who continues to serve as a DOD contractor I don’t see a problem with burying him in place of the (non-existent) spouse on top of his son. The son was single. Who else would occupy that space? No one. I think the JB adminstrator could do some legwork with the Feds to accomodate this man as a veteran. I agree with Marilyn Garrison that I would not recommend this for anyone but a veteran. Seems the situation is fairly unique and would not incite a rash of other requests.

Logicprevails: I agree with you that it probably doesn’t matter to the parent once he or she is dead. Maybe it matters more to the parent while he or she is alive. Death ends a life, not a relationship, and after a child dies, often the parent’s life ends as well. Life for them is sometimes more terrible than death. Rules are made to be changed and relaxed when we realize there may be some advantages involved! What better way for a country to pay its debt to a parent!

I’m under the impression that they are willing to bury him is the same spot as his son. He doesn’t want that because he wants to be buried with a future wife in the same spot. He is wanting a reserved spot for him and a future wife next to his son. I think he is being a little ridiculous. He is asking the government to change the whole system based on what he wants. If this is that important to him, he needs to purchase lots in a private cemetery and have his sons casket moved. If it is more important for him to be buried with a future wife than in the same plot with his son. Being buried with his son is not so important to him. I’m not heartless but realistic.

Reasonable.

First Tom: Good point.

could the father be buried on top of his son? or could the son be moved next to the father upon the father’s burial (at the family’s expense of course)?

this brought up a question…if a veteran marries a person of the same sex in the state(s) where it is legal, will the military honor that union upon death and make the same options available to them as available to heterosexual couples?

I thought as I read this article, why not bend the rules a bit, but my mom and dad are at Jefferson Barracks and they are one on top of the other — so can’t they do the same for this man? I think it would be way too crazy to keep a site open next to the son, then the next person who has an equally good reason — what then??? Please sir, I appreciate what you and your son did for our country, but I hope you will be comforted that both of you will meet again on the other side and your mortal garb will not be thought of again. I am sorry for your loss.

You can find a lot of good information about saving money on funeral goods and services here: http://www.funeral-tips.com.

This site also sells a resource kit about funeral planning that provides a lot of specific information on the military’s funeral benefits (and how to take advantage of them).

Why doesn’t the father make arrangements to be cremated and have someone scatter his ashes on his son’s grave when no one is looking? There isn’t much to a cremation, and even less after the first rain. Yes, this is highly illegal, but this is the federal government. It is better to act now, and ask forgiveness later.

My dad was cremated and buried with his parents. (My mom donated her body to science, and the rest of the remains were cremated and interred in a mass grave in Kirkwood.)It didn’t take any more real estate to bury a crematory box, and much less work than a full body burial.

Be creative. “Do not weep. I am not there.” The only way to get around military intelligence is to outsmart it.

My cousins husband served in the military. Their son ( non military) died first and he was buried at JB. My cousin dies second and she is also buried on top of her son at JB. My understanding is that when the husband dies,he will also be buried with his family. Obviously they do make some exceptions.

Gina-what your cousin’s family had happen is not an exception, unless the son was over 21(or 23, depending if he was at university) and able to take care of himself . Currently, non-military dependents are “stacked” with the military member in the same plot. Here’s the web address for the appropriate government document: http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2002/julqtr/pdf/36cfr12.3.pdf.

In a few years, hopefully i’ll be buried at JB too. I have an uncle, a grandfather & grandmother (in the same hole) and a great uncle, all at JB. I spent 11 years in the US Navy. Don’t change the policy.

my question is … several years ago a man who was alive requested his young son be buried at JB, which i understood he was, and that the father would be buried with him whenever he dies. Is this a rule bending???? Just curious.

It is not uncommon for someone to buried with their car. Yes, car. If a veteran decides he wants to be buried with his car, should he be accomodated?

Or should past and present rules prevail?

I don’t care one way or the other.

al cary- Dependent children are allowed to be buried in the military member’s plot. If the spouse or child dies first, they are interred in the next available plot, with their name on the back of the headstone. When the veteran dies, he/she is buried on top of the earlier decedent, and his/her name is on the front of the marker. That’s why there are some markers at Jeff Barracks with blank fronts, and engraved backs.

If he were to be cremated and have his ashes put with the grave of his son, he would accomplish his wish. A more mature solution of cremation is what most responsible people should do anyway.

Mr. Zwilling is extremely grief stricken, and rightly so.
As time passes and the pain eases a little.
I expect he will come around to understand that the cemetery
must conform to long established rules & regs.
Have a little compassion for the man, please.

A lot of you better hope there’s not an after life.

I personally think putting spouses in a military cemetery is totally wrong. The spouse did not serve in the military and die for their country. I do understand being married to a soldier/sailor/marine/Airman is hard but they should not be buried next to someone that died for our freedom, or spent their life fighting for it. If they want to be buried together, it should be in a civilian cemetery. So this father, who served his country, should have a spot next to his son. Not the kids, not the neighbor, the individuals that allowed our freedom should be all that is buried in that sacred ground. !

Amy-What part of “non-military spouses are buried in the same plot” did you not understand? The NCA offered Mr. Zwillig the opportunity to share a plot with his son (as the boy’s spouse would have done, if she was not a military member). He refused-he wants to be buried NEXT to his son, so that HIS future wife can be buried in his plot. Non-military spouses have not been buried NEXT to the service member since 1962 (according to the NCA site), they have shared a plot. Plots in military cemeteries are assigned based on order of internment, not family relationship (except for the dual military spouses). A key word-the term “military” is missing before “spouse” in the above introduction.