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10.07.2008 9:34 pm

Have the debates really helped define the candidates’ positions?

St. Louis Post-Dispatch
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Debates have been a long-held tradition in politics. And we vary them between the stilted podium-anchored statements and tonight’s “town hall style” meetings.

The debate tonight sounded very much like the previous one to me, however. Sen. Obama worked very hard to paint Sen. McCain as a clone of President George Bush. McCain worked hard to describe Obama as a product of the Washington establishment — without the ability to reach across the aisle and promote change.

Do these debates do anything to help voters really understand the candidates’ views on the issues? Or do they confuse you more, as the candidates highlight the flaws they perceive in their opponent’s plans?

Please comment below, or vote in the poll:

Who won presidential debate No. 2?

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72 comments

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I’ve watched my last debate. I cannot stomach watching McCain for 90 minutes.

— shirleybry
9:40 pm October 7th, 2008

Boring rehash of the previous 2 debates
I didn’t learn anything new.
Same charges, same rebuttals

Close, with edge to Obama

Biggie - Obama looked presidential, just like in debate #1

— STL
9:40 pm October 7th, 2008

Obama did very well — kept his composure while commenting on key issues, while we saw McCain pacing behind him, making snide remarks, and remarking little on the actual topics at hand. Obama clearly won.

— Sid
10:13 pm October 7th, 2008

Both candidates’ performance tonight clearly demonstrated why Barack Obama will be our next president. ‘Nuff said.

— Stu L.
10:15 pm October 7th, 2008

Obama was amazing. Made clear, succinct points. Even as a lifetime Republican, there is no real choice here. So long as voters aren’t blinded by the last ditch, month long fear mongering that the party will use, Obama will win in a landslide. Finally it seems like we’ll be back on the way to being respected throughout the world.

— Bob T
10:16 pm October 7th, 2008

I am voting democrat for the first time since Prdsident Lyndon Johnson. John McCain will say anything and maybe do anything to be president. He scares me.

— nadine
10:39 pm October 7th, 2008

Bill I doubt you are a life long Republican

While giving you that Obama is a skillful orator, he is an empty suit.

This man has no track record execpt for the fact that he gave a great keynote address at the 2004 DNC.

He has been in the US Senate for, what four years? Minus of course the last two when he has not represented the state of Illiois because he was to busy running of President.

Lets not get caught up in retoric which Obama gives us. He has no record of accompishing anything of any merit. Voting present does not show where
you stand with the American people.

— john calhoun
11:02 pm October 7th, 2008

John Calhoun– See how many people agree with you on election day. This. election. is. over.

— Shel
11:05 pm October 7th, 2008

Shel

While the polls may showing that, I will not agree with anyone who thinks that an empty suit will be best suited to run this country only because he is a sweet speaker and has no record.

Shel what is unfortunate about this whole thing is he will get credit for turning around an economy that has only one way to go but up.

FDR got credit after Hoover, Kennedy got credit for Eisenhower, Reagan got credit for Carter, Clinton got credit for Bush, W got credit for Clinton and the way it seems right now is Obama gets credit for W/

— jc
11:13 pm October 7th, 2008

This was a good debate for both candidates, but it needed to be a game-changer for McCain - Obama did every bit as well as he did in his preferred format, the “town hall meeting.”

Both looked moderately Presidential, but the end was awkward. Was I the only one who thought it was a tad amusing when both candidates walked in front of - and blocked - the camera on Tom Brokaw (and also his TelePompTer)? SNL needs to do something with that. :-)

— annster
1:13 am October 8th, 2008

Hmmmmm. Whoever wins this election will be the loser, and just a one term president. Neither has any clue about economics. None.

To draw an analogy, Whoever is elected will be a pair of of scissors trying to cut a 6 inch I beam. They won’t cut it. (pun intended)

— johnh
5:24 am October 8th, 2008

For those who have somehow managed to avoid any news of these two men over the last eighteen months, the debates, I guess, are a decent primer.

— Tim Cibulka
6:33 am October 8th, 2008

It looks like it is all over but the celebration. I simply can not see McCain coming back. The current economic events completely overshadow everything else, and have effectively handed the election to Obama.

All I can say is that I hope and pray that the real Obama is the decent centrist politician that he is performing as today. If this in fact, turns out to be the biggest con-job heisted upon the American public, then we are in for a very rough ride.

Who is the real Obama? The one that wants decent health-care for all, or the one that would withhold medical care for infants that survive being aborted?

Which is the real Obama? The tax and spend liberal, or the man that will reduce taxes on 95% of us and reduce spending?

I could go on, but you get the point. There are huge contrasts between the Obama of today and the Obama of the past. Aided and abetted by active support in the media all around the globe, this man stands on the edge of the Presidency of the USA.

We are going to get change, it just may not be what we all wished for.

— sg
6:39 am October 8th, 2008

john calhoun is right. Obama is scary and what’s even scarier is how many people fall for his rhetoric. HE HAS NO EXPERIENCE to back up anything he says. He wants to sit down with world leaders who hate us and talk????

Nailing down his tax plan is like trying to nail jello to a tree….you all are falling for his spiel and that’s what it is….a spiel.

Spending like what he wants to do during economic times like this? Are you kidding???

— Concerned
7:03 am October 8th, 2008

I think the debates may be useful in winning over “undecided” voters. (For the life of me, I can’t imagine how anybody could be undecided at this point!)I think most voters have already made up their minds–in many cases, made up their minds a long time ago–whether their decision is based on contemplation of the candidates and the issues or whether it’s a gut reaction. Either way, a debate is highly unlikely to change anyone’s mind at this point. Thus, the debates become more entertainment that substance. It would be different if candidates didn’t start campaigning over a year ahead of time. If you had no exposure to the candiates, a debate might be a great showcase for who believes in what. But by this juncture, it’s like “Get me to the polls and get this over with!!!”

— Pat Carpenter
7:07 am October 8th, 2008

as long as the “Debates?” continue to be repeating stump mantras and not telling the public “Why you should elect ME” they serve vaguely to give ideas about candidates. I would much like to see an open forum where the rules are, “Answer the damned questions!” …without slurring the facts or outright lying. Now, more than ever, I want to here someone speak to me honestly. A pipe dream, Probably. But since they are taking my money to pay for their lack of control and oversight, I deserve to know what they are really going to do. Listening to repeated sound bytes that lack veracity does little.

— mickey
7:13 am October 8th, 2008

I wish the debates would include a third party: someone standing by with a records book that could be used to immediately verify both candidates’ answers to a particular question. Then after the third party’s response, each candidate would explain why he either lied or stretched the truth in his initial response.

Under its present format, we don’t get straight answers, and the advantage goes to whichever candidate speaks last.

We might only get through 3 or 4 questions, but at least we’d get straight answers.

I’m disappointed in both candidates for misleading us just so they can emerge stronger from the 90 minute debate.

— Ryan On The Euphonium
7:32 am October 8th, 2008

We’ve had enough debates. No one answers the questions and can’t limit themselves to a simple yes/no to a question. Same old bumblings with mistruths and lengthy failures to answer questions posed. No wonder nothing gets done in the congress. Neither one spoke of social security. I think it’s time all workers in the country need to be under social security, eliminate governament retirement.

— Tomar
7:52 am October 8th, 2008

Barack Obama truly cares about us, the American people, and has OUR best interests at the top of this list. I am a victim of the Bush administration and it is not a good place to be. What I find truly ironic is my last employers are big Republican supporters and lost their business because of it!!!

— donna
7:57 am October 8th, 2008

When I consider the accomplishments of the debates, I read between the lines of the rhetoric, and I try to consider each candidate. John Galbraith spoke of leadership–that all great leaders have one characteristic in common: the willingness to confront the major anxiety of their people in their time. I believe this applies to both candidates. Willa Foster, on commenting on the competence of leaders, stated that quality is never an accident–it is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, skillful execution–a wise choice of many alternatives. Again, this applies to both candidates.

So to make a choice, we have to consider each candidate’s proven ability to think through a problem–one who has demonstrated over time that he has control of his thoughts–someone who, like Einstein said, thinks things through ninety-nine times and the conclusion is false, but on the hundreth time finds truth.

Maybe we need to pay attention to Einstein when we make our choice.

— Ryan On The Euphonium
8:19 am October 8th, 2008

BHO doesn’t have anyone’s back. All he cares about is raising taxes and discouraging reward for hard work. Fine, if you live on socialistic entitlement checks from the govt. Hell, I’ll just quit my job and let the govt support me!! If you want socialism, vote BHO. McCain won the debate hands down.

— budb1969
8:21 am October 8th, 2008

What many don’t realize is that before the Titanic wend down, I ordered the crew to rearrange the deck chairs to keep the ship afloat. As history tells, our plan didn’t work and neither will a private banking consortium’s (Federal Reserve).

— Capt. Edward Smith
8:26 am October 8th, 2008

These discussions have become as boring and mundane as the debates themselves. Seriously, can anyone point out what either candidate could have done to change their vote? The people who comment here have their minds made up, and nothing either candidate can say or do is going to change that.

— Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum
8:31 am October 8th, 2008

Why does every candidate now, their first stop after nomination is Israel instead of say Iowa or Nebraska? And why is every candidate now thrown the softball question (like last night also) as to whether they will sacrifice American blood to protect a country which is a racist, genocidal, ethnic cleansing Nazi regime (Israel)?

— America First, Last, Always
8:31 am October 8th, 2008

I don’t think either candidate won and the format was anything but a townhall meeting style debate. Where were discussions about: abortion, education, immigration, or gun control? The questions should have gone from the economy to these other issues instead of rehashing foreign affairs, which we know where each candidate already stands.

McCain, disappointed me with his mortgage buyout plan…but should have cheered you liberals who want the government to run their lives and give them handouts. Where is accountability and responsibility? McCain was wrong to vote “yes” on the bailout and is wrong to blame everyone but the idiot homeowners who bought homes they couldn’t afford. If folks can’t learn their lessons, they are doomed to repeat them.

Obama came across fairly well but at the end of the day, he wants to tax and spend our way into prosperity..which never works. I still have yet to see in all these posts what Obama accomplished during his years in the House and Senate. Donna, you say he “truly cares about us”..really? How has he truly cared about you thus far? Be specific now..Anyone? Beuller? Bueller?

— Logicprevails
8:37 am October 8th, 2008

Are these really debates? They are not hashing out any one topic to any extent. The longer it went on, the more I realized all I was hearing was a repeat of what I here in their TV campaign adds everyday. It is a public waste of time to air these so call debates. Obama is clearly not in touch with reality. He is making the lower middle class believe that he is going to change their world. It’s not going to happen. Nothing is going to change because of an elected president. It is going to take much more than that alone. I don’t hate either one of them. I do feel that Obama has a lot of people fooled that he can do what he is claiming he will do. Lower to middle class people have been let down enough in this country. With Obama, it’s only going to happen again. Once again I say, where is Ross Perot when we need him.

— first tom
8:37 am October 8th, 2008

I have to agree with shirleybry but it’s BO I can’t stand to watch.

— J.B.
8:40 am October 8th, 2008

“Who is the real Obama? The one that wants decent health-care for all, or the one that would withhold medical care for infants that survive being aborted?

Which is the real Obama? The tax and spend liberal, or the man that will reduce taxes on 95% of us and reduce spending?”

–Ahhh yes; the passive-aggressive canards without any fact basis behind them. Sorry, I’m not biting, and frankly I’d rather have Obama eliminating W’s tax cut for the wealthy than the Republican economics of ‘Debt-and-Spend’.

“McCain, disappointed me with his mortgage buyout plan…but should have cheered you liberals who want the government to run their lives and give them handouts. Where is accountability and responsibility? ”

–you mean like accountability on Wall Street??? Look; undoutedly some people took advantage of the system, but most did not, and are now getting screwed by it, so the ‘tough love’ excuse doesn’t cut it either.

…In fact, I am very curious about one thing: Banks are fighting mortgage write-downs tooth and nail. Is it because they really will lose money (as opposed to simply losing profit), or is it because they believe they will make more money letting the loans go to foreclosure and taking bailout money from the government? I haven’t yet heard a good answer to this question.

— reality check
8:45 am October 8th, 2008

McBush was a National Embarassment with his holocaust nonsense! Shut Up already! It was almost 70 years ago and didn’t happen here! 20 million people died in World War II but we no longer teach children about these deaths only the jews. Everyone is sick of hearing about and reading about and being indoctrinated about the GD holocaust! I don’t owe Israel a GD dime!

— Grandpa Juan "Amnesty" McBush
9:12 am October 8th, 2008

Do yourselves all a favor. Write down all the promises, tax cuts, planned proposals, and whatever else came out last night and check that list in 4 years to see how many get done…

— Tim
9:13 am October 8th, 2008

I agree with a couple of other posters. Washington D.C. better start thinking of appeasing me instead of Israel! We outnumber Washington and Israel combined and they better take that to their usury banks!

— Appease Me For A Change!
9:20 am October 8th, 2008

And people say McCain has an anger management problem? Obama crumbled more than once.

— Scott
9:21 am October 8th, 2008

Obama is no saint but can anyone really imagine four years of looking at McInsane and his chipmunk pouch and “roboarms”?

— Alvin
9:25 am October 8th, 2008

It was more of the same, and I fell asleep halfway through the debate. Personally, I’m sick of hearing Obama say he’s cutting taxes for 95% of Americans when 40% don’t pay income taxes to begin with.

— jenhop23
9:27 am October 8th, 2008

Clearly Obama won again. We don’t even need to see the polls to know that. He comes across as president already, while John McCain comes across as an angry doddering old man.

Here’s what I don’t understand. Essentially McCain made the same sort of mistakes he made last time. Not friendly enough, not calm, awful body language and so on. Not a statesman. Not a reassuring elder who’s seen it all and who can be trusted to deal with it now.

I don’t believe that his handlers don’t know this. I don’t believe they didn’t know this after the first debate. It was dead clear. So, does John McCain not know this? Are they not able to tell it to him? Does he not listen? Why do they not have someone coaching him? Ditch some campaign appearances and spend hours working on his body language, his voice tone and give him answers that are statesmanlike.

Or is John “Maverick” McCain too angry to listen? Too frazzled, too tired, too unable to make a change from a game plan that clearly isn’t working. Is it the campaign? Or is it him?

Either way, it’s actually kind of sad. What I see in John McCain is an old tired man whose anger doesn’t just come from being behind but from having worked beyond capacity for too long. He doesn’t have Obama’s stamina, nor does he have the sense Obama had in taking a week’s holiday to recharge. The best thing that the McCain campaign could do now is to come up with some reason to give him the better part of 3 days off. Let Palin campaign for him, she pretty much does anyway. Let him recover.

I doubt it would matter to the end result, but at least we might not be treated to Obama coolly dismantling what amounts to a punch-drunk McCain who can neither think nor speak straight.

— JC
9:28 am October 8th, 2008

Let’s elect Obama president, McCain VP (he knows more of the people the VP is sent to funerals for as they are his generation.) Send Biden to Home Depot for spare parts to fix the country, and Caribou Barbie back to shoot Rooshians in the Bering Strait with her moose rifle.

I just got a couple of those so-cool Rednecks for Obama bumper stickers.

I don’t know that the debates do anything at all, except present a vision.
Anyone else actually read the Lincoln-Douglas debates? They weren’t very practical– they presented ‘visions’ for America. What happened in April of 1861 turned even that vision on its ear. Lincoln surrounded himself with the best people he could find (not all good, but the best he could find) and how long did it take him to get a decent general (who made a rotten president)? Government is a human endeavor. Obama is the first person of my generation to be given a chance, and I say we let him take it.

. I don’t have the stomach for TV commercials. I’ve been appalled at the “lies, damned lies and statistics” being used on radio commercials. The president should have a ‘vision’ and a direction for the country — that’s what being president is all about. Obama has a ‘vision’ and a direction — admittedly a tad naive, and impractical, but he’s intelligent– he’ll learn.

McCain just needs to clean his trifocals, buy a GPS and ride off into the Sedona sunset.

— Teresa
11:29 am October 8th, 2008

Alvin,
Those roboarms are from broken arms and shoulders as a POW. There are many out there with the same problem. It’s from having your arms tied behind your back and picked up by them and dipped in ice water. You are one sick person. If you can’t find anything else to say don’t say anything. I can’t believe you would say such a thing about someone that has been through that. I have no respect for anyone like you.

— first tom
11:30 am October 8th, 2008

I think the debates allow the candidates to challenge face-to-face the credibility of their opponents ad content and campaign rhetoric. Obama and Biden have successfully used the 3 debates to spotlight McCain’s position of being loose with the truth on tax plans and funding the troops. In addition, one of the reasons McCain continues to tank in the polls is that his campaign tactics have resulted in his loss of the trust and the confidence of some voters.

How McCain Lost Credibility With The Voters

Negative Ads
o When the content has been debunked by unbiased sources then the content is recognized as a lie. Playing the debunked ad again and again is lying again and again. This is an insane strategy that is an insult to the intelligence of we voters and erodes the voters trust.

Which Ads, What Subjects?
o Will Increase Taxes - McCain’s ads and points during each debate. Quickly and thoroughly debunked by Obama and Biden citing an independent analysis of the candidates tax plans.
o Voted Against Funding The Troops - McCain’s ads and in the first two debates. Quickly and thoroughly clarified by noting the difference between the candidates positions on strategy in Iraq. McCain voted against funding the troops when a timetable for withdrawal was part of the bill, while Obama voted against when a timetable was not included. They both voted to fund the troops but they both voted against an exit strategy in Iraq they didn’t like.
http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/nbc-video-analysis-of-obama-mccains-tax-plans.html
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxtopics/presidential_candidates.cfm

VP Selection
o Nominating someone so obviously lacking in credentials to occupy the #2 position showed either a significant lax in judgement, prioritizing political expediency over the security of our country, or both. The Gibson and Couric interviews dramatically showed the shallowness of the selectee on major political issues. The VP debate amplified it to 70 million viewers. Providing a rapid recital of irrelevant talking points and buzz words interwoven with folksy talk, winking, a pretty face and a couple of zingers just does not satisfy the American electorate. Closing ones eyes to eliminate the visual distractions so as to just listen to the words is so revealing, as is reading the transcript. The performance in the VP debate had to generate even more questions about John McCain’s judgement and credibility. My hunch is that after the VP debate all but the party faithful thought “What was John McCain thinking?”.
http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/president/debates/transcripts/vice-presidential-debate.html

Stiffing David Letterman
Over 8 million TV and YouTube viewers watched Lettermen’s two night tirade about McCain’s deceit. Letterman caught McCain lying after phoning and canceling his scheduled appearance on Letterman’s show that night. McCain canceled because he needed to return to DC immediately in order to work the financial crisis. Letterman showed a live feed from the CBS newsroom with McCain at a news desk across from Katie Couric preparing to be interviewed, hardly on his way back to DC. In addition, McCain did leave for DC until the next morning. The live feed certainly called into question McCain’s credibility.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFw-_e1ZckI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59S8CMXXvWI

Credibility is huge.
If the voters don’t believe you then why would you ever expect them to vote for you?

— STL
11:37 am October 8th, 2008

This debate did clarify a little better some of each candidate’s positions.

I look at the debates, at least the ones between Senators McCain and Obama as the fora in which they can present themselves and their positions in the best light. At least, neither has had to use Gov. Palin’s “let me get back to you on that” in response to a direct question, and, neither winked at us.

While I am a supporter of Senator Obama, I really do want to hear from each candidate on what they consider as viable policies and procedures to help improve this mess we are in presently. I did find it interesting that Senator McCain had one or two fairly strong statements disassociating himself from President Bush and Cheney. Unfortunately, he did not follow up on these all that well.

I see by the poll that Senator Obama is being given the “win” on this debate. Senator McCain needed to be outstanding just to pull even. Senator Obama maybe played it “safe” too much, although this time at least he did “counter-punch”. I would prefer both bringing their “A” game in next weeks debate and to stop playing it safe.

— RHarnack
2:13 pm October 8th, 2008

Is it me, or did McCain look really old? Even his movements. He doesn’t move across the stage, he contorts and relocates….When he walks, he looks like he’s trying to dance with Walter Brennen.

— Garrison
2:45 pm October 8th, 2008

We finally turned it off after Obama repeated verbatim something he had said earlier. Even one candidates criticism of the other has not changed in weeks. This campaign started out with so much promise, but the candidates have fallen into old habits. I’m a bit disappointed by both candidates. I was hoping for so much more. Can we move up the election a few weeks?

— jfmoyn
4:18 pm October 8th, 2008

Anybody that saw a “clear” winner is a “clear” moron.

The guy you like not proving to be an idiot does not a debate winner make.

Pretty boring, very little really said.

Pretty sure we still have a tight race, oh wait, a sure winner, the polls say so. Poor Al Gore, poor John Kerry - and please comment about stolen elections…it will show how blinded by a party you are.

— Mike
4:26 pm October 8th, 2008

As someone leaning Obama, I thought he seemed presidential. Perhaps it is just the physical and verbal contrasts, but Obama makes McCain look small and angry. It may just be a reflection of Obama’s ability to convey strong leadership without seeming overbearing.

Unfortunately, these debates won’t matter much. People always complain that politicians are not specific, on the one hand, and not personable enough on the other. Most have already made up their minds and I think this election is closer than the polls indicate. This election is very similar to the primary campaign between Obama and Clinton and I believe more character attacks are yet to come.

— take a deep breath
4:27 pm October 8th, 2008

Mike,

No need to call names.

— take a deep breath
4:29 pm October 8th, 2008

I just came back to re-check these since Tuesday night and I am discouraged by so many of the postings. With so many ABSOLUTELY STUPID people in the country it is amazing that we haven’t self-distructed by now. Please…..Be Informed or Be Quiet!

— shirleybry
5:58 pm October 8th, 2008

I don’t like or want to vote for either candidate, and for the first presidential election since I started voting in 1972, I think I will just sit this one out.

I really dont care about debates, or POW status, or if you’ve been endorsed by Oprah.

Not long ago, both candidates met with President Bush in closed door meetings regarding the economic crisis. If you want me to vote, make transcripts (Not press conference spin) from that meeting available, then I’ll see what the candidates are really made of, and I would vote.

— crashtest
6:55 pm October 8th, 2008

Former St. Louis anchor Julius Hunter, interviewing Ronald Reagan on the economy, July 22, 1982: The President———”My projections are that the signs are kind of mixed when you bottom out in a recession. But in these last few days, the Federal Reserve, cutting the discount rate for the banks — the prime rate being set by the banks at a lower rate. The interest rate was 21-1/2% percent when I started a year and a half ago. For the first time in several months we are showing an increase, small though it may be, in the gross national product.Now, I’m not going to jump up and down and say that, well, you know, there’s going to be a boom just around the corner. It won’t get cured that way. The previous seven recessions have seen the government using what I call a quick fix — artificially stimulating the economy, pouring printing-press money into the marketplace. And, yes, temporarily there is an easing of the situation. But look back at those recessions, and you’ll find that about 2 to 3 years later, we would have another recession, deeper and worse than the one before. This one is the deepest and the worst of those since World War II.Now, what we’re embarked on is a plan to restore the economy, to restore industry — not a quick fix — to get back to where we’re on an even keel without government deficit spending, without the government having to go into the market and use up the capital that belong to the people.”——–He said the previous govts. used “quick fixes” and “artificial money” (b.k.a. as stimulus pkgs.) and 2 or three yrs. later being right back in a WORST and deeper recession than the one before.(a.k.a. wallstreet patchup/bailout, sounds like Bush 04′-08′).” He goes on to state (and I think this is the most eerely, similiar to the present time statement of the interview)…….”This one is the deepest and the worst of those since World War II.” (subprime mortgage crisis now being the cause for what experts say is the worst economic disaster since WWII)…….”Now, what we’re embarked on is a plan to restore the economy, to restore industry — not a quick fix — to get back to where we’re on an even keel without government deficit spending, without the government having to go into the market and use up the capital that belong to the people.” (in present time called $700 billion dollars of taxpayers money)…and these yahoos that robbed me and every other hardworking true American grinder went on a $400,000 resort vaction just days after the bailout??????!!! WTF???????!!!!….NO MORE DE-REGULATION,NO MORE GOOD OL BOY/REAGAN POLICIES, NO MORE GW, NO MORE MCSAME, NO MORE REPUBLICANS!!!! OBAMA/BIDEN 08′ Just out of the blue stumbled upon this article. Wiki Julius Hunter for the full article. Just for extra strangeness…the article also includes commentary about our then bouts with Russia. Scary. PRAY!!!!

— NewGovt/NewAmerica
11:16 pm October 8th, 2008

No hard questions have been asked of Hussein, none. How about asking him why he paid $400,000 to ACORN to register the dead, under aged, fictitious persons, Illegal aliens, felons, etc? Hussein did that by using a different named non-existent company to issue the check to. Crooked stuff. ACORN got the money and did the registrations.

Due to complaints from many states to the FBI, they FBI has raided many of their offices country wide sizing computers, records, etc. They are still raiding ACORN offices.

How does Hussein explain that????????

Can the PD get an answer? Can any of you?

— johnh
5:03 am October 9th, 2008

God have mercy on this country when Obama gets elected and the boys at Freddie and Fannie (who were a BIG part of this financial crisis) become cabinet members, and you and I lose our homes and retirement accounts, and can’t afford healthcare…will you still be patting yourself on the back????? Get the facts! (and not from the brainwashing media)

— A. Patriot
5:32 am October 9th, 2008

All Obama wants is to make history as the first black President, anything that comes after that does not matter as he will be forever in the history books. He does not care about you! not one bit. Just ask his Pastor for over 20 years…Rev. Jeramia Wright…by the way where are those soundbites from the McCain campaign? If those were run daily, things surely would turn around. Do not trust Obama to do right by America!

— A. Patriot
5:42 am October 9th, 2008

Oh, there’s plenty of reason to call names. The idiocy being thrown out here is more than deserving of it. Look at the pol. Obama wins by that kind of margin? I’m pretty sure the voters didn’t even watch the debate. They’re Obama supporters, they would say he won if he hadn’t said a word. It’s a sad commentary on the readers here. Not who they like, but they can’t understand what it means to win a debate. It’s koolaid drinking.

Morons might have been a strong word. Disingenuous liars is more like it.

— Mike
8:45 am October 9th, 2008

STL, in my research, I found that Obama’s tax plan actually raises taxes on the middle class. Please see the discussion under marginal tax rate increases for both candidates at http://www.taxfoundation.org. While the website indicates that both candidates are wrong in their comments regarding who will pay more in taxes, Obama comes out on the short end regarding his comments.

Also, regarding your comments about the VP selection. In my review from various outlets about Biden’s comments, he was wrong on many counts. His most egregious comments were regarding the roll of the Vice President when he mentioned Article I of the Constitution covering the Executive Branch (it was Article II) and that the VP can preside over teh Senate only when there is a tie vote (the VP is the President of the Senate and interprets the rules..and can only be overridden by a vote of 60 Senators). Palin got it right when she said the VP holds positions in both the Executive and Legislative Branches. Going on, Biden said McCain’s plan would cost people money…but the Tax Foundation finds that it could easily be roughly deficit neutral over ten years. Also, Biden said that under an Obama Administration, the middle class would pay no more than they did under Ronald Reagan..not true..the tax rates wil be similar to the higher rates under Clinton. He was misleading on many other things as well..and a flat out liar regarding having a beer at “Katie’s Restaurant” in Delaware…it hasn’t been Katie’s for at least 15 years. What an idiot.

I am hearing now that Michelle Obama worked at the same law firm that Bill Ayers’ wife did and am trying to make sure this is correct. If so, it goes to more concerns about whether Obama is telling the truth about his past associations. If he is not truthful about that, how can you trust him to run this country?

— Logicprevails
8:50 am October 9th, 2008

— A. Patriot
” If those were run daily, things surely would turn around. Do not trust Obama to do right by America!”

You need to keep up
They were run daily 24×7 for about 2 months during the primary
The voters decided it wasn’t significant

and they won’t change their minds
.
You just rehash the same old trash
Can’t your handlers think up anything new?
.

— STL
8:57 am October 9th, 2008

STL said “You just rehash the same old trash
Can’t your handlers think up anything new?”

Give him some time – 97.1 won’t have Bill O’Reilly on until 11am, followed 2 hours later by Glenn Beck, followed 2 hours later by Sean Hannity. I’m sure something in his daily 6 hour dose of right wing cool-aid will cause him to come back here and vomit red all over the board.

— He has't had his daily dose
9:34 am October 9th, 2008

Why were only two people taking part in the Presidential debates? Obama and McCain will not be the only names on the ballot.

US politics is shameful and the American people are being led around by the nose. The most depressing aspect is most don’t even know it. As long as people choose to remain willfully ignorant we will never break the two-party monopoly on our politics. And since McCain is a Republican in name only, isn’t it really just one party?

You may now resume petty partisan bickering.

— Ben
10:44 am October 9th, 2008

I hate to here all the negative things about the candidates as much as anyone else. However, as a republican I was somewhat interested in Obama because of my lack of faith in McCain. After hearing some things about Obama that have been under played by him. I have decided that he is a little too shady to be in the White House. Because of negative adds I have opened my eyes to what kind of person he really is.

The first two qualities that I would look for in a president are Honesty and trust. Obama has proven to lack those qualities. He is not telling the truth about his past with his minister as well as other people. McCain may be using negative adds but Obama is outright lying in his adds. He is starting to look like a non athletic O.J. Simpson.

Some are saying that he looks presidential in the debates. Do you really want a president that can’t stop pointing his finger at you while he talks.

— first tom
10:56 am October 9th, 2008

— first tom
“The first two qualities that I would look for in a president are Honesty and trust’

Me too
What happened to John McCain
.
.

How McCain Lost Credibility With The Voters
.
Negative Ads

o When the content has been debunked by unbiased sources then the content is recognized as a lie. Playing the debunked ad again and again is lying again and again. This is an insane strategy that is an insult to the intelligence of we voters and erodes the voters trust.
.
Which Ads, What Subjects?

o Will Increase Taxes - McCain’s ads and points during each debate. Quickly and thoroughly debunked by Obama and Biden citing an independent analysis of the candidates tax plans.

http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/nbc-video-analysis-of-obama-mccains-tax-plans.html

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxtopics/presidential_candidates.cfm
o

Voted Against Funding The Troops - McCain’s ads and in the first two debates. Quickly and thoroughly clarified by noting the difference between the candidates positions on strategy in Iraq. McCain voted against funding the troops when a timetable for withdrawal was part of the bill, while Obama voted against when a timetable was not included. They both voted to fund the troops but they both voted against an exit strategy in Iraq they didn’t like.
.
VP Selection

o Nominating someone so obviously lacking in credentials to occupy the #2 position showed either a significant lax in judgement, prioritizing political expediency over the security of our country, or both. The Gibson and Couric interviews dramatically showed the shallowness of the selectee on major political issues. The VP debate amplified it to 70 million viewers. Providing a rapid recital of irrelevant talking points and buzz words interwoven with folksy talk, winking, a pretty face and a couple of zingers just does not satisfy the American electorate. Closing ones eyes to eliminate the visual distractions so as to just listen to the words is so revealing, as is reading the transcript. The performance in the VP debate had to generate even more questions about John McCain’s judgement and credibility. My hunch is that after the VP debate all but the party faithful thought
“What was John McCain thinking?”.
.
Stiffing David Letterman
Over 8 million TV and YouTube viewers watched Lettermen’s two night tirade about McCain’s deceit. Letterman caught McCain lying after phoning and canceling his scheduled appearance on Letterman’s show that night. McCain canceled because he needed to return to DC immediately in order to work the financial crisis. Letterman showed a live feed from the CBS newsroom with McCain at a news desk across from Katie Couric preparing to be interviewed, hardly on his way back to DC. In addition, McCain did leave for DC until the next morning. The live feed certainly called into question McCain’s credibility.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFw-_e1ZckI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59S8CMXXvWI

.
.
Credibility is huge.

If the voters don’t believe you then why would you expect them to vote for you?
.
John McCain has lost his honor and his credibility with the voters.

— STL
11:30 am October 9th, 2008

McCain should play the Penguin in the new Batman Movie.

— momrn94
1:38 pm October 9th, 2008

People, people obama is the anti-Christ.Why can’t you get that? Well if he makes president your going to be very sorry.

— calcool
2:08 pm October 9th, 2008

Calcool,

Time for your medication – we don’t need another Jim David Adkisson.

— Calm down, Sir
2:49 pm October 9th, 2008

Hey, Mike! I watched and listened carefully to both presidential debates and the vice-presidential debate, and I support Obama. And it’s precisely because of the debates that I have become a firm Obama advocate. In my humble opinion, Obama outperformed John McCain handily in each debate.And the unfortunate episode between Biden and Palin? No contest there, either!

Now excuse me; I’ve gotta get back to my remedial reading class.

— Ryan On The Euphonium
3:40 pm October 9th, 2008

Outpreformed handily? I have to chuckle at that. You must have been watching something other than the rest of the country. When the Obama cheerleading society (media in general) won’t award a “clear” victory to him, I have to question the not-so humble opionions of the people here.

All four of our friends were pretty lackluster in all the debates. Sad but true. What were the great moments in them? Why is it that we hear more about a nonsense “that one” comment than anythinge else? Because nothing interesting happened.

— Mike
10:52 am October 10th, 2008

I hate to rehash the same thing over. Most of you people who think Mccain as a republican will do a good job, just because he says he’s a maverick, will be in for a surprise. McCain is another George Bush. You think things are worse now, elect this man and you will definitely starve and suffer. What hurts one, will hurt all. It will be a domino effect. I already predicted a stock market crash weeks earlier, now look at the markets and tell me if everything is peachy. I am sick of people putting down Obama on these blogs. Let’s just call it for what it is, racism and prejudiceness and white superiority. If the man was a white man, you wouldn’t have a problem. But your deeply engrained hatred is going to put you in the poorhouse. I want be mad.

— pat
12:40 pm October 10th, 2008

The first post today shows some of the ignorance out there. Obama is surrounded by many of the best economic advisors from both parties, and even no party affiliation. McCain, on the other hand, had few willing to even work with him because of his temper and bad attitude. Few trust him in DC. Obama’s mamma was a world expert on micro financing and that is one of the ways we will be helped during this big boy induced crisis of massive proportions. Learn a little before you post folks, so you can look smarter!
The debates are a prop. Brokaw got his little ones handed to him in this one. LOL Can’t stop a doddering old man when he wants the whole stage, can ya Tom? LOL

— Pia
12:51 pm October 10th, 2008

You are right pat…we have sheriffs in uniform trying to spread hate amongst the white hooded ones in FL at repub rallies and Palin said nothing about it. Nor did McCain. That’s their true constituency…the ignorant…the haters…the selfish anti-americans who fear a level playing field. I would not wanted to have my kids at a repub rally lately. We have folks on this blog that are allowed to continue posting religious hate and lies here because the blog master has no nads when it comes to that.

— Pia
12:56 pm October 10th, 2008

What is John McCain going to do for the economy. Instead of him talking about what he’s going to do, he and his campaign is spewing hate based on fear. I can see all of the kkk’s and skinheads, and closet racists now trembling about the fact that this man possibly will become president. But this man was raised by a white mother, white grandmother and white grandfather. What does this say about all of you hatemongers. The man you voted in 8 years ago has messed this countries finances up and it may take your children’s, children to fix it. Also, he wasn’t such an intelligient person, graduated at the bottom of his class, never has been in touch with the ordinary man or woman, took us into war, over a lie, born with a silver spoon in his mouth, helped a lot of his friends get rich including Cheney, and just because of your hatred, you would vote for another 4 years of the same ole thing. You are shameless and stupid.

— pat
2:43 pm October 10th, 2008

And the race card gets played…

You know who needs to play that way? O.J. Simpson. Evidently you would group Senator Obama in the same category of desparation.

— Mike
3:02 pm October 10th, 2008

“We have folks on this blog that are allowed to continue posting religious hate ”

Who?

— Mike
3:04 pm October 10th, 2008

Liars For Leaders - and the First Dark Age of Congress:

Welcome to the world of so-called Democrat Omnipotence!

The Financial wreckage caused by the so-called Democrat leadership is upon you, as must be expected. If those idiots get the Congress they want, your economic tragedies are just beginning.
As usual they try to cover up, but their endless lies and attempts to hide their responsibility are to no avail.
Their many dementias, and their dedication to the (paid-for) promotion of Perversions, over all other issues, have led their followers to intellectual and economic ruination. Now the rest of you are feeling the effects as well.
……….
Back on the Stage of Human Tragedies … the so-called Homosexuals AKA Democrats AKA Feminists AKA Liberals etc. still attempt every brainwashing and propaganda technique that they think has worked in the past. The intention is to keep as much of the ‘General Public’ duped, confused, and as mindlessly obedient to their insinuations, and intimidations, as is possible. And voting for them. Soon enough, those propagandas will become demands … that THEY be accepted as the Gods and Goddesses of the Unholy Grail of ‘Change‘. And what better weapon to use for that purpose than a Dark Age Congress … under their control and at their disposal.
However, their attempts at stifling and muzzling all possible Human Dissent, using any possible medium, will not work as it has in the past! Their intended creation of laws, to ‘outlaw’ any Human Dissent against their vile and perverted plans … (to commit ‘Genocide By Replacement’ of the Human species) … will also fail.
Being blind to their own inevitable failure, and with their Congress in place, they will see (or think they see) the path to their goals as a distinct possibility. Using their ‘Dark Age Congress’ they will demand obedience and submission to all of the sources of their propaganda … with emphasis on the Satan Tube and the ‘Thought Controllers’ in the Filthy Monkeys Band, and those News Rags which they already own and completely control. This will be accompanied by an all out anal assault upon the AM Radio Band. On that media many Human Commentators and Human Resisters speak the Truth about the SQLD (Satanic&Queer Lying-Dead) … otherwise known as the ‘so-calleds’. Yes, they are an organized mass of squirming evil, that can be collectively identified.
Here in the Present, harassments at home, in society and at work continue against all Human Resisters who oppose the SQLD Oligarchy. Those attacks and harassments were planned to triple and quadruple! All in the phony name and with the phony excuses of their vile causes. Their terrible goal, of course, is to destroy every Human Value and Human Moral … in the names of ‘political correctness’, ‘diversity’, and ‘tolerance’ … the three whipping (prostitutes) of the so-calleds (SQLD) and their propaganda campaign.
In the Future, inevitable failure is their destiny … however the process of bringing about their failure will be greatly enhanced and empowered if the SQLD are denied any intended Omnipotence of Political Power. They require total power in order to rape and defile the Human Species with their phony laws and regulations … all of which are intended to enshrine themselves and their clientele as the leaders of the ‘Tolerant Society’. A society in which Humans are just those nasty things that have to be kept in Chains! Mental Chains - Physical Chains - Spiritual Chains - Muzzles with Chains … a Chain is a Chain is a Chain.
If the SQLD get their intended ‘Dark Age Congress‘, where no Light Of Human Decency is allowed to shine … they will immediately, mercilessly and without a hint of guilt … destroy every Human Institution and Value System in this country … as soon as they can … as permanently as they can!

If you want to prevent that … do two things.

1. Do not be registered as a so-called Democrat.

2. NEVER VOTE so-called DEMOCRAT !!!!

Rush Limbaugh has accurately described the followers of the so-called Democrats as … (and I paraphrase) … people without luster, hope or direction - all in need of any guidance or structure that promises them everything. So, at the so-called Democrat watering trough they cannot be denied a drink - or any whim of insanity - or any disease of perversion. They call that ‘Mass Appeal’.
Well, that all adds up to the Death Of The Human Species!
Here in the Present, the SQLD will do anything to reinforce and falsely validate the continued misuse and prostitution of the foundations, institutions, and intentions … of what was once a Human Nation and a Human Capital … which they now infest, dement, and disease.
You may ask “Why?”. Why is all of this happening, and why do such terrible creatures exist? Well, by the time we get through SQLD 404 you will know why … far more than you ever wanted to.
For now, my best advice is simple. Do onto the enemy - as the enemy does onto you! The days of blind suffering for all Humans are over.
……….
Try to think beyond yourselves. Above yourselves if possible. Ahead of yourselves especially. Far more than just your Humanity rides in the balance here.
In the not too far future, all of Real Human History (not falsely rewritten by the SQLD), will demand to know what monstrosities dared to attempt the perverting and ‘Death by Replacement’ of the Human Species.
Will you know what to tell the Future? Do you know who and what is responsible?
Keep in mind that if you are Human, you are not supposed to know anything Real or Truthful. And to make sure you never get a chance to know the Truth, anyone willing to say the Truth has to be eliminated!
Or at least … that is how it was supposed to work.
Now, WE are going to be looking for enemies … instead of enemies looking for US.
That is quite a turn about of events, considering that the SQLD planned on hunting us down like wild pigs in a parking lot! And it’s not just the Human Resisters of today that they want to kill. It’s the Human Resisters of Tomorrow that must die too. And that means … YOUR CHILDREN!
To the so-called HomoMasters AKA DemoMasters …one Death is as good as another. Mental, Social, Economic, Spiritual, Physical, Premature … any death that stops Human Resistance! Just as long as it’s not Final Death … for themselves!

Oh by the way, to any HomoMasters AKA DemoMasters out there that might be reading this … does it look like I give a (“gosh darn“) what you want or say?

I-Know-It–I-Knew-It

— I-Know-It--I-Knew-It
1:30 am October 13th, 2008

Mike, to answer your question, see the post above.

iki-iKi,
You should present a print of that post to a therapist, you need serious help.

— Calm down, Sir
7:02 am October 13th, 2008

The debates are good, because for most of us, it is our only opportunity to observe the demeanor of the candidates when they have to answer a question that they cannot predict or control (Sort of the way real life works. )

The job of our President is to conduct himself with dignity,equanimity and respect. What goes on in a campaign speech is tightly controlled (both candidates) What goes on in a debate style appearance is less controlled by the candidates.

— Galt
12:58 pm October 16th, 2008