They are the same. Basically to protect a driver if he/she gets in an accident with an unbelted driver or unhelmeted bike rider. The statistics show that this can be more injurious and/or deadlier.

I think to revocation of such laws (seat belt or helmet) should only be done if they include indemnities to others for injuries in accidents.

Seatbelt laws should be in place for minors, but as adults we should be able to decide what is safe for ourselves. I wear my seat belt on the highway only, I’m not afraid of a $10 ticket. I am well aware of the dangers, I was in a car accident, we hit a telephone pole at 80mph. The driver survived only because he was NOT wearing a seat belt. If he had it on he would have been smashed beyond belief. I don’t need the government to protect me from myself.

What is the big deal about buckling up? It takes two seconds and it is a proven live saver. My thought on this is that once the car is rolling I am no longer in control of my fate. I can put on a seat belt before I push the accelerator and I can drive as safely as possible but I can’t control what the guy behind me is going to do. If the seat belt is the difference between life or death I pick a wrinkled shirt and life.
I feel more strongly about helmets being worn on motorcyclists. I don’t even see a reason to talk about it. Bare head, solid pavement. Why would you even question the law on this one?

Tina, I will gladly get rid of seat belt and motorcycle helmet laws for adults only under certain circumstances. First, if a non-restrained or helmeted driver or passenger is injured, they cannot receive any State or federal medical or disability benefits arising from the injury. Second, they are not allowed to file for bankruptcy to avoid paying any medical expenses. Third, insurers have the right to deny coverage to anyone not wearing restraints or helmets at the time of the accident. Fourth, hospitals are not required to provide treatment to any non-restrained or non-helmeted adult if they are unable to pay for their treatment. Bottom line, do what you want, as long as I don’t become responsible for one red cent of your treatment or needs because you can’t work.

I wear my seat belt and I also wear a helmet while on my motorcycle. It’s the law. I would still do both law or not. That would be my personal choice. I do feel that it is not the governments place to protect you. I think that children should be protected under seat belt laws. If an adult chooses not to protect themselves, that should be their right. The same cop that will write a ticket for a seat belt violation will also throw his cigarette out of the car which is also breaking a law. If they are going to give tickets for not wearing seat belts, they should be ticketing those that throw trash out their car window. That would include cigarette butts. That will never happen.

oI have an opinion and it will be quite different from others. I buckle up every time I get in the car and before I start the engine. However, I unbuckle while driving along water. If through my error or someone else’s error my vehicle goes in the water and turns upside down, I don’t want the fun of trying to unbuckle while upside down.

How many times do cars that are uphill from a lake go in the water and people drown? Often in the summer, and little ones can’t unbuckle from their seats. If the car goes in and sinks, there are a lot mote problems that are caused by their being buckled in than if they were not.

Now to motorcyclists. They are a strange breed. I don’t care if they wear a helmet or not. I know one could have benefited by wearing one. I was travelling within the speed limit. A cyclist couldn’t pass because of oncoming traffic. When he did, he pulled in front of me and slowed to a stop. I got out and he threw a punch. He missed, and got a chop to the neck that knocked him out plus a knee to the groin while he was falling.

I got in my car and left him and his bike laying where they ended up. A following motorist and passengers saw the whole thing. They wrote my license plate number down. They called the cops. Cops called the ambulance. Nos it gets funny. A cop came to my house and asked me to tell him what happened. I said, I won’t discuss it. He replied, you know you can be charged with leaving the scene of an accident. I replied, I left the scene of a fist fight, it was no accident, now remove yourself from my property or I will remove you. The cop left. I never heard from anybody after that.

I don’t care if motorcyclists wear helmits or brivers wear seat belts. Neither has anything to do with safety, but to collect money for fines.

DonPat, we share some of the same thoughts, however where does it start and stop. Everyone that smokes, does drugs, drinks alcohol, drives fast, ect. Cost taxpayers down the line somewhere. We all pay for peoples mistakes as a society like it or not. I would think that the seat belt and helmet issue would be a small percentage of what we spend on other causes. I do agree with your comment.

I do wear my seatbelt, but I think the laws are just to generate revenue. I really question whether cops should be spending their days trying to catch people without their seatbelts. Surely there are more pressing law and order issues they could be pursuing.

johnh: You are soooooooo cool. I want to be just like you. It takes a real man to knee someone in the groin.

Tina, I find your story about someone surviving an 80 MPH collision with a pole while not wearing a seatbelt completely bogus. Give us a date and place of the accident so we have a way of verifying your claim…

There are exceptions where not wearing a seatbelt might have helped, but the odds are way against it.

I agree that you shouldn’t wear a seatbelt if you don’t want to. I also agree that you should not be able to receive any government paid healthcare if you get in an accident. And the government should then require that insurance companies give seperate rates for those that do and those that don’t, since the don’ts are guaranteed to have higher rates.

I agree totally with DonPat. The same people who scream that the Evil Government is infringing on their right to be stupid are the first to scream “Workmen’s Comp,” “Malpractice,” and “Disability,” then lean on insurers to cover every imaginable ache or pain.

Loki03 — Don’t get mad at JohnH. Those of us who have read his rants on this blog for ages know when he’s off his meds, and when his fantasies are the most fanciful. It’s just Johnh being Johnh….he can’t help himself. He was an abused child and the lobotomy didn’t take.

Oh — I forgot — WELCOME BACK ROBSMYTHE!

1. Seat belts save lives. When first introduced, there was almost an immediate reduction of traffic deaths. This has been proven over and again. All other “reasons” to not wear them are fallacious and have no basis in fact. For those who try to come up with the “driving along water” scenario, please stop and think for a moment longer. If your vehicle impacts water and you are not wearing your seat belt, the likelihood is that you will be thrown forward and be knocked unconscious by the impact. (To understand this, get on a high dive and do a belly flop.) The only mitigating circumstance is your air bag might prevent you from too much forward impact, but it will not prevent side-to-side trauma.

2. The old axiom from when my wife worked in the OR was that motorcyclists who did not wear helmets were known as “organ donors”.

3. “Does the government have a right to enforce safety standards?” This is an idiotic question. There are those who run around talking about the “nanny state” when such standards are met. The problem is that seat belt laws, helmet laws, fire and safety codes, etc. are designed to set a minimum standard. Those who assume that they would survive without these are making a full set of wrongful assumptions some of which follow:
a. only by being “free of restraints” can they effectively avoid injury;
b. paradoxically, if they are free of such restraints they will die “free”;
c. such restraints do not apply to them because they are physically fit, “a good driver”, etc.

These assumptions are wrongful simply because while they may “die free”, their families and society must deal with the aftermath. If they survive, they may survive in a persistent vegetative state, and again it is their family and society that must deal with the aftermath.

Lastly, if you adhere to one of the above assumptions, call your insurance agent and have them explain the fine print in your policies to you.

I won’t argue against wearing seatbelts/helmets, they really do save lives.

I don’t think it should be the law, because those laws interfere with natural selection.

I really wish the Police would find something else to do….like catching real criminals, and maintaining a high profile at shopping areas.

Yep… I buckle up right before I reach down and either light a cigarette or whip out my handy dandy cellphone before I even get out of a parking spot(since I know buckling will keep me safer in my car) <— note the sarcasm.

I would dare say that the marjority here, not necessarily all but could be ALL, that state how faithfully they buckle up also NEVER exceed the speed limit and come to a complete stop at each and ever stop sign or red light. All of which are ‘guidelines/standards of safety’. Do you go 20 in school zone or 21-22 because it is ‘close enough’ and you are in a hurry? (<— note more sarcasm).

Point is, whose safety is at risk if I choose to not buckle? Mine. I thank each and everyone of you for your concern that I may/may not buckle, but really I got this one. You want to police what others do; start with the person in the mirror and you can take comfort and satisfaction that you are monitoring your OWN safety.

These laws are strictly for generating revenue. As an adult, I should have the right to make this choice for myself. What’s next, I get fined for using the toilet standing up?

The hefty insurance premiums I pay every month are enough to ensure that my bills will be covered and I don’t need the state to pay anything!

It is personal preverance if you want to our not, period. As an adult you should be able to choose whether or not you want to use seatbelts or helmets. You are not hurting other drivers by not doing this. I’m 45 and have never worn a seatbelt in my life. I do not want others/gov. telling me what I can and cannot do as long as it doesn’t effect others!!!

10/28/1988 on a Friday night Approx 1am at the intersection of Hwys H & J in Portage De Siox (sp?)He was flown to Barnes downtown I went to St. joseph’s in St. Charles. Believe me now? The reason he survived because he was thrown to my side of the car (passenger) there was no drivers side left. Also a girl in the back seat didn’t have a seatbelt on and she survived with minor injuries. The point of impact was at the drivers door, broadside, wrapped around a telephone pole. My point being, we don’t need the government to make these stupid laws they’ll never enforce. Protect us from criminals, not from ourselves.

Either make everyone do it, or don’t do it at all. All states, all helmets, all seatbelts BUT ESPECIALLY school buses. Why shouldn’t the children be protected? And don’t want to hear reply about bus turning over and everyone hanging upside down - upside down is better than out the window!
Also, part of me says we let people drink and drive and smoke around everyone and there’s not a safety law around, let them make their own decisions about whether or not they should wear helmets or seatbelts.

There isn’t much difference. Both laws are an invasion of privacy and a move at the wallets of Missouri drivers by the various state and local governments.

DonPat, isn’t it illegal for hospitals to deny care for those who can’t pay? And how do they know you can’t pay ahead of time? I’ve never been asked for prepayment–even my co-pay in the ER. I almost agree with your insurance point, but I think a lot of times it would be hard to prove no seatbelts were worn, unless the person was crushed in the car or something. But, the fact of the matter is, the laws created to simply protect adults from themselves are too much for me. Minors, yes make them do it.
Also, I’ve always wondered why seatbelts aren’t required for schoolbuses. Or booster seats, especially since that age/weight limit is higher and generally includes all kindergardners and some 1st graders.

I find it interesting that the seat belt ordinance is being assiduously enforced in the same neighborhood, and just down the street from the Steak and Shake where the two employees were murdered.

I’m all for dinging people if they are stopped for other infractions, but just seat belts, for a measly $10? That’s harassment,IMO. I wear the darn thing probably 98% of the time, even though it cuts into my neck (I’m short, and my car has no way to adjust it lower so it goes over my shoulder where it should.)

As far as kids in school busses– I can just see the buckle end being used as a weapon, breaking someone’s glasses, or knocking a tooth or two out. Modern school busses have you slotted into the highback seats like papers in a vertical desk organizer. Unless the bus puts it’s little wheels to the air, you aren’t going anywhere.

Did I say something about the cops helping to prevent real crime, and letting Darwin have his way with the people too silly to wear belts?

Since when has the government been interested in saving lives? A seatbelt or a helmet is an obvious no-brainer to use, but let the people decide. Regarding kids, I think the Democrat saying from another important issue applies here: “It’s not a child. It’s a choice.” If a parent doesn’t buckle their kid in, perhaps they really wanted a late-term abortion. It’s just a blob of cells anyway.

johnh never ceases to crack me up. He must be on peyote again. “How many times do cars that are uphill from a lake go in the water and people drown”…. holy cow man. He makes it sound like this is a daily occurance. The fact of the matter is that seatbelts and helmets give one a greater chance of survival in an accident. Yes, there is that one-in-a-million occurence where the seatbelt harmed the person more. I wonder if the people using this lame argument would play Russian Roulette with 5 bullets in a six shooter? I mean, hey, there’s that one chance you might not get shot.

I wear my seatbelt because it’s the smart thing to do. Not because big brother told me to. I do NOT think there should be a law about it. These laws serve only to generate revenue, as do many traffic laws and ordinances. I simply think insurance companies should write some kind of non-payment clause for claims from individuals who were found not to be wearing their seatbelts.

Race car drivers and fighter pilots wear belts and helmets…..good enough for me.

Tina M -
Thank you for completing your “example”. Here is the problem with it — it represents an exception and does not disprove the rule about seat belts.

Here are some links you may want to follow:
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/seatbelts.htm
http://www.nhtsa.gov/portal/site/nhtsa/menuitem.cda13865569778598fcb6010dba046a0/

Seat belts and air bags are designed to protect you and enhance your survivability in the majority of accidents. If excessive speed and/or extraordinary circumstances are involved (ie. travelling over 90 mph or driving off the edge of the Grand Canyon), then all bets are off.

However, if you want to stick by your example, then at least find out what the survivability of other similar accidents as the one you describe is. Playing the odds in this case just does not make any sense.

I have more problems with folks breeding endless kids who crime than any law enforcements like you speak of. Those kids do me more harm than unsafe vehicle operators’ protections not being used. Financially if nothing else. Massive birth control please. It’s time. And get the feds off of old sick people backs who have legal state medical cannabis cards. They just want to screw with us. Nothing more.

Our nanny state has no right to tell adults what to do, they claim it is a matter of ‘public safety’ well what I do to myself has nothing to do with anything public, it is my decision and my choice. I wear my seatbelt, by choice not because some elected puppet voted that I must. Motorcycle helmets, well again that is a choice. I don’t ride a motorcycle, but if I did I would want that helmet on to protect myself.

The exception to the above is with children, I can agree with reasonable laws that require car seats to a certain point and seat belts for young children, there are parents that are highly irresponsible. On a motorcycle, I do agree that any minor MUST wear a helmet, even if the parent chooses not to.

So it wasn’t a head on collision is what you are saying Tina. So he got really lucky, the car probably spun around and the laws of physics were kind enough not to eject him from the car…even though he was going 80 mph at an intersection.

If that one accident is the reason you don’t wear a seatbelt, ask your local FD if you can ride around with the paramedics for a day and see what usually happens to people in a car without seatbelts on…

I agree that those people who engage in risky behavior should pay a price. If you eat meat your insurance should be higher, the hospital should charge you more etc.

People engage in risky behaviors. Smoking, drinking, meat eating, living in cities, riding bicylces on city streets. If you want to start punishing people for risky behavior, start with these.

The reason there is no helmet law in IL because there is NO compelling public safety issue. IL courts decided that public benefits don’t out-weigh the individual’s freedom. That sounds like alot like the balances that founded this country.

“Our nanny state has no right to tell adults what to do, they claim it is a matter of ‘public safety’ well what I do to myself has nothing to do with anything public, it is my decision and my choice.”

This statement is preeminently a self-centered one. Unless one is completely self-created and sprung whole from a rock in the desert, no individual stands alone. There are families, friends, co-workers, acquaintances, etc. in everyone’s net of existence. This statement is also the one of suicides.

helmet saved my life. maybe not wearing it if it hadn’t been the law. still recieved a severe whiplash that i suffer from some 29 years later. you have to have laws to protect people from themselves or society will pay