I haven’t done any hunting in years. I’ve never done any deer hunting, mainly pheasant in Champaign and rabbits and ducks in Carbondale. I know squat about deer hunting but it seems 100,000 deer down in a weekend would suggest that they are not that hard to find after all. I do know, of course, a ton of deer hunters and I have yet to hear them get together and say “Well, it’s time to go do our civic duty and thin that menacing herd for the good of our neighbors.” They do seem to take on a strangely superior attitude that I don’t see during other hunting seasons. I have nothing against hunting at all. The reason I don’t hunt any longer is a simple one. It always takes place in the damned cold and I hate winter with a passion. I prefer fishing.

Same old story. The millions of ethical hunters who follow the rules and respect both the activity and the game resources aren’t as interesting or newsworthy. Yet, the poachers, idiots, or careless people are often misrepresented as typical hunters or sportsmen.

As with lawful gun owners, the bad rap goes along with being on the politically incorrect side of the agenda. The most strident critics have no knowledge whatsoever of the heritage of hunting or its benefits as a means of recreation and tool for wildlife conservation and family bonding.

Worthwhile info at:
http://mdc.mo.gov/

I am not against hunting at all, I hunted turkey, rabbit, squirrel, dove, duck, goose and pheasant for years and deer for a couple of years. My dad and brother still hunt and I enjoy the food from their harvest. Smoked wild turkey is absolutely delicious and nothing better than wild rabbit, squirrel (remember they are seed, nut and fruit eaters, pigs and chickens eat disgusting things so don’t turn your nose up) and dove fried like chicken then baked for a hour or so in the gravy, mouth watering.
I think deer hunters can take a rap because many view their tactics as unfair. First, many hunt from tree stands, the reason, deer have no natural predators above ground level so they do not look up to spot potential enemies, second, deer hunters use every imaginable scent disguise, from does in heat to bucks in rut, they use decoys, some hunt over food plots. They tip the scale heavily in there favor and many do not find it hunting more than a slaughter, sort of like shooting cattle. I stopped hunting deer after a couple of outings, I did not find it to be challanging or what I would calling hunting, in my opinion deer are quite stupid, the two I shot stood there not 30 yards away looking directly at me (mind you I did move and was whispering to my dad) did not move and I simply pulled the trigger, not much fun or sport in my humble opinion.

100,000 deer in one weekend may seem like a lot, but it’s important to remember that it is a small fraction of the actual herd. In Missouri, and probably most states, usually less than half of deer hunters actually kill a deer; far fewer kill more than one.
Stories like this are good reminders of how important it is for hunters to be mindful of their appearance to the non-hunting public. Some people will always have their biases based on a variety of influences, but there is no reason for hunters to add to those biases through their own behavior.
As for doing “civic” duty, many hunters feel strongly that they do more hands-on work for and donate more money to conservation programs than non-hunters. There are statistics and financial figures to support the claim that sportsman-based conservation organizations (Ducks Unlimited, Pheasants Forever, Whitetails Unlimited, Trout Unlimited, Smallmouth Alliance, etc.) contribute more to conservation and habitat restoration programs than other organizations. Add to that the state and federal programs that are funded largely or entirely by sales of hunting/fishing permits and stamps and taxes on sporting goods and you’ll find that most conservation efforts would simply not exist without hunters and fishermen.

Stereotypes of out of control hunters hurts the vast majority who play by the rules. This is typical of any of the many catagories we like to put people into. While I don’t hunt or fish, and I love to poke fun at my friends who do, there’s really nothing wrong with it. I love deer sausage and I’m grateful to my friends who supply me with it every year.

It seems a number of reasons contribute to a despisement of hunters:

1. Most lemmings in America don’t want to know where the meat comes from. The process has been sterilized and corporatized for them. They think meat comes from “The Corporate Meat Fairy”. In reality, for the most part, wild game is probably much more healthy to eat since it doesn’t contain toxic growth hormones and assorted other toxins made by Monsanto and Dow and a handful of other “death to the living” Corporations.

2. Deer Hunters do carry a aire of Superiority that without them there is no such thing as wildlife management. When in reality the entire system is broken and a lot of it has to do with habitat encroachment and the killing off of predators. If natural predators were reintroduced you’d again have to deal with the lemmings who’d be screaming “OMG!! The wolves are going to kill my Billy and Sally Sue and drag them off in to the woods and eat them!!”. This statement is completely false and is exacerbated by propaganda told to children about the “Big Bad Wolf” and other consumerist nonsense sold as fairytales and childrens books. There’s no documented cases of wolves attacking children and carrying them off in to the woods to eat. Perhaps pets but those are natural predatory instincts and pets are convenient targets when other wildlife is scarce and only requires due diligence on the “Skeered Lemming’s” part to guard against this happening.

3. And probably last but not least but most likely the primary reason is that hunting has been turned in to a “Sport” and not a means of securing food. When killing something for fun turns in to a sport it becomes akin to what the Federal Government does with its military. Killing for fun is something that only rabid hunters and the US Military does and is why it is so abhored in society. If killing were for self-defense, to secure food supplies or actual defending America from threats it could be justified. But the way killing has been turned in to a “Sport” by hunters and the US Military makes it despisable to most people.

Hunting, like a lot of other traditional activities in this country, has been under a cultural assault for the last several decades. It’s part of a general wussification of society. In a society where people don’t let their dough-butted kids out of the house without a helmet and are afraid to call a handicapped person handicapped, buying them a .22 and teaching them how to shoot it are out of the question.

While hunting and fishing remain very popular (there are entire cable and satellite channels that do nothing but hunting and fishing 24/7 and it’s a multi-billion dollar industry), you never see those activities portrayed in a positive light in the popular media. Hunters are almost always portrayed as drunken, sadistic, hillbilly rubes. Never mind the fact that the majority of hunting and fishing licenses are sold to middle class urban and suburbanites. I’ve found that the vast majority of hunting critics don’t have the slightest idea what they’re talking about. They do it solely for a fake sense of moral superiority.

I’ve been an avid hunter and fisherman for over 30 years. I grew up reading Outdoor Life and Sports Afield. The hunter from Sedalia violated one of the cardinal rules of deer hunting — you never walk up to an animal you just shot unprepared for a follow-up, specially if it’s eyes are closed.

Does anyone remember the Ellisville town hall meeting to discuss the proposed urban hunting of deer this year? They were so over populated in that area because there were no hunters or predators of an kind that they started moving into yards and then streets. I remember that prior to the start of the town hall meeting 3 deer were eating the lawn in front of the hall.

There were 2 options up for debate, allow an urban hunt or sterilize the bucks (or does). Either way you are killing the deer. If you aren’t killing the ones you see, you are killing the ones that would have been born next year.

Every time someone sees a deer hunter they say “going to kill Bambi?”. The thing is that those opposed to hunting seem to not understand what happens to the herds if they go unchecked with no predators around. Diseases set in and inbreeding will eventually occur. I’ve seen a diseased deer or two in my time and I can tell you its not pretty.

Hunters get a bad rap because people tend to say things like “oh, its so cruel to shoot Bambi,” without giving any thought to where their food comes from. Chances are, what you’re eating tonight used to walk around on all fours, too.

Anybody that has hit a deer with their car is probably more likely to say “good for the hunters”. I’d be out there with them if they didn’t get up at such an ungodly hour.

Comparing all hunters to a bunch of out of shape lazy drunks is like all comparing motorcycle riders to the Hells angels!
I think the anti hunters really don’t get it and need a better arguement.

Teak- Now that was a very well written and informative response. You addressed the issues without the need to refer to the non-hunting population as lemmings or dough-butted which may be where some of that “perception” comes from. thank you.

Today’s “hunter” is a middle aged overweight guy with a paunch who can barely climb into a tree stand with his six pack. That’s not hunting. Tracking and stalking your prey through woods is hunting. I have respect for hunters. I don’t respect fat sadists in tree stands.

Hunting is what I do like golf is what some people do. I do not appoligize for hunting; I do not need to. Spiders do not play fair with their prey; they are on the upper part of that food chain. Humans are on the very top of the food chain. Some do not like being in that position and their guilt supports their critisism of hunters. Hunting is as natural as eating itself. Some people enjoy their work and early man sometimes enjoyed hunting for food. Some early humans found other work to enjoy and that is OK too.

Cheaters in any activity give critisism ammunition to those who, for whatever reason, do not approve of that activity.Hunting is no different. Hunters get a bad rap for the same reason that people who drive SUV’s get a bad rap; some people just want to control other people and force them to do things the way they choose. It’s just human nature….like hunting!
Mike

Why do they get a bad rap? Have you seen their outfits? The hats alone are enough to make you gag. And no body type looks good in camo overalls. Dreadful!

I have hunted all of my life. Since 1974 I have only hunted with a bow and arrow. I have served on several advisory committees as well as on the board of directors for the Archery Trade Association for many years, worked with conservation groups on a national level, and attended functions put on by the Congressional Sportsman Foundation in Washington.

The reason I stopped hunting with a gun was to avoid the once a year hunter that got to enjoy his weekend away from the family to play like a real hunter. Somewhere along the line, deer hunting became a social event for what would normally be non hunters. Know one hated to see that more than the true hunter with a passion for conservation. Hunters have always been recognized as killers by some of society. That has been an unfair label for the most part. Driving down the highway with your trophy hanging out of your trunk with blood all over the bumper is not what a true hunter would do.

How could you expect a non hunter to feel about you if you did such a thing? Some self proclaimed once a year hunters don’t think like a true hunter. They do stupid things. You can often find them in the grocery store in groups a few days before opening day buying the food and the beer for the trip. Some start sighting in their new gun shortly after the season starts on opening day, ruining others chance of having a successful hunt.

I could go on and on. In short, the hunter is shafted by the want a be hunter. We all get thrown into the same group by non hunter and animal rights groups. There are a lot of hunters that hate to see some of these things going on as much as the anti hunter does. It’s a shame but it has happened that way. It’s almost as bad a racial profiling.

I could never hunt myself. I have bad eyes and would probably be a danger to myself and others.

However, having been in a car when it hit a deer and having recently narrowly avoided hitting one with my car. (Its scary and not pretty) I have no problem with the legal hunters. Matter of fact, please do it in the control of urban deer populations because its scary otherwise.

To Dave Misham, By classifing todays tree-stand hunters in an unflattering light, you feed the steryotype that is just not true. Before a smart tree stand hunter ever hangs a stand, they scout the area for sign. Just willy-nilly hanging a stand anywhere most likely will not produce a harvest.
Ancient Indians used to hunt from trees or other elevated areas also, does that make them wrong in your opinion? Using the noggin that God gave you to give you an advantage when hunting is just plain common sense.
To all the others out there who complain about hunters, consider this. If someone in your family’s past history had not hunted, odds are you would not be here today.

Because they are hunters, and the non-hunting population doesn’t understand the difference between trophy hunting, blood-hunting for the rush of the activity (an exercise of machismo, which can be deliberately cruel), and hunting for conservation/food/fun purposes.

There is also a great deal of distinction between people for whom hunting is a way of life, and the two-weekends a year “deer warrior”, for whom such paeons such as “Turdy Point Buck” and “The Second Week of Deer Camp” play on the radio in November. There are a lot of people out there (hunters and non-hunters) who don’t realize these songs are parodies. It’s hard to take the guy down the street seriously as a thoughtful,responsible fellow when the media face of hunting is Ted Nugent, every convenience store in the world has Gas-Ammo-Beer below its orange “Welcome Hunters” banner, and as a non-hunter, a person cannot tell the difference.

The “deer gets revenge” story is newsworthy, simply because that was one deer out of the 100,000 taken down, and yes, people forget what antlers are for. The overwhelming majority of deer hunters do so safely and sanely, so they are not news. Excluding a few vocal PETA people,and people who believe wilderness starts at I-270, most Midwesterners have no great moral objection to hunters or hunting even if they aren’t one; such is not the case elsewhere in the country, where the ranks of hunters are falling. By the way, the deer harvest in Missouri has quadrupled in 25 years– so much for deer hunting as a dying sport.

I guess I only see hunters who play by the rules getting a bad rap in urban areas, where non-hunter pseudo-sophisticates don’t understand the rules of nature, and why hunting is essential. Now, hunters who don’t play by the rules– well, they deserve the ribbing/reeducation/scorn from their fellow hunters, but because it is coming from the ‘in-group’ it’s not the same as if bunny and bambi-huggers were after them.

Thanks to Dave Michem for providing us an excellent example of the stereotype that led to this discussion. At the risk of stirring the pot, I must admit that when I think of a hunter stalking their prey, the first image that pops into my head is Elmer Fudd.

I admit to taking a perverse delight in stories like the Sedalia story — other than my revulsion at the thought of the animal’s suffering — just as I rejoice when the bull nails the matador or tramples the idiots in Pamplona.

We have not needed to hunt to secure food for at least the last 100 years or so, unless you live in remotest Africa (or maybe outstate Missouri), so the reason people hunt is simple: they get a charge out of shooting animals. That does not make them evil, but let’s not dignify it by calling it “sport.” And please spare me the “we have to thin the herd” crap. Nobody goes hunting for that reason. And even if they did, if we’d stop destroying their habitat, we wouldn’t need to thin the herd. Nature regulates itself, until humans wreck the equation, as we invariably do.

I have always said, deer hunting will be sport when the deer can shoot back.

Teresa,
You mention Ted Nugent being the face of hunting as if that is a bad thing. Like him or hate him, Ted has one thing going for him…..he’s right. When was the last time you saw anyone debate hunting with Ted? They use to line up to try to match wits with him but everyone of them left with their tail between their legs. It has been a long time and that is because no one can win, he points out there erant logic and defeats every thing they throw at him.
You may not care for his style or manner, but when it comes to articulating the facts to the uninformed, no one does it better.

Call it a sport or not if you wish, but the price of beef alone has encouraged me to put four deer in the freezer this year instead of the usual two.

And I consider it my civic duty to continue to control the population. Bob Barker wants our pets spayed or neutered. I permanently spay or neuter 2-5 deer a year, preventing overpopulation.

I don’t hunt, never have, and have no intention of ever trying it. However, I’m not going to try to talk others out of it; hunting simply isn’t my thinkg. I don’t see the enjoyment or even the ability within myself, of killing something for reasons other than self-defense. That being said, I don’t feel that killing a wild animal for food is anymore humane than killing a cow that was raised to be slaughtered. Sure, I doubt the cow knows it’s going to be hamburger, but the principle is that cow’s purpose in life was to be food for humans. The poor wild deer, rabbit, etc., are forced to play life as a gamble–maybe they’ll die naturally after a long life, or maybe they will end up as a “trophy” on some “man”’s wall. Now, what about staged hunts, or whatever they’re called, where you go to PoDunk, MO to shoot “wild” exotic animals that are fenced in and are defintely not native to the area, like a rhino or something? Man-oh-man.

I love people like Boyd who thinks that “others” are destroying wildlife habitat. Reality check, Boyd; If you consume anything, anything you are a co-conspirator in the destruction of wildlife. Do you live in a grass hut or a home? Your home is located in an area once inhabited by wildlife. You are as guilty as the next guy.

By the way, I too get a kick out of the deer turning the tables and bulls getting revenge. If a deer did this to someone I know, that guy would live with that the rest of his years cuz I sure wouldn’t let him forget it.

Boyd, you say “Nature regulates itself”…Humans are part of nature/part of the “equation” and top of the food chain. I’m an avid deer hunter. I don’t believe it’s a sport either. However, it’s part of our ancestry and a hell of alot better than eating processed meat.

I think it is interesting that people forget how much money is created and generated by the hunters in Missouri Economy. Look it up on MDC website to see how much revenue is created in licenses along. And you have to realize that the success rate is 50% or less for most hunters. That is 1/2 of the licenses are not used and money is donated to MDC.
I grew up in the Country and live in the city. I grew up learning about hunting, fishing, farming, biology and the benefits of mother nature to humans. How do you think this nation was created and survived from its discovery. There was reason why Indians and settlers farmed, hunted and fished they did it for food. You people that thinking hunting is wrong. Look back at your family tree and see when your ancestors came and see how they survived and where they lived at. I guarante they survived off eating livestock and hunting wild game. Our country was created by settlers who used what the land provided to survive. So a hunter who takes a deer because its morally wrong that is crazy. Our country was founded and survived based on harvesting the wild game and creating a society based on trade of fur and fish.
I am a avid Bow Hunter and I do occassionly rifle hunt but its not much of a challenge as bow hunting. If people don’t want to harm a animal at all take a hard look at history books review the expansion of the west and early settlements. Granted now that we have grocery stores to provide food it all comes from the earth people. In the end we are all consumers of what mother nature provides (beef, chicken, deer, fish).

Although I’ve hunted twice I work with many that Do hunt. Deer Season being the big time of year for most of them. I’ve found the majority of these otherwise fairly smart at their IT jobs people, all men to be a rascist, redneck, intolerant, sloppy, drunken bunch of louts.
I was asked to go along once to help them scout deer for tree-stand locations and hunting on the property they had access to. I went along and even though I didn’t plan on doing any hunting myself I very much enjoy the outdoors and was thinking that would be a big part. It was not. It was mainly about getting ripping drunk, watching porn, playing cards and spouting rascist intolerance that would make Rush blush. The hunting portion was a minor part of the event and was treated as an afterthought by lazy, fat, out of shape middle-class family men who seemed more interested in getting away from their wives and kids for a weekend of drunken debauchery.
Although I know there are dedicated hunters out there I think the majority are as described above.
I wouldn’t have minded seeing a few of these jerks I went with getting racked by a deer.
It would have been quite karmic.

While it doesn’t take arming a kid with a rifle (bad idea given how violent they’ve become), there is something to be said for those criticizing and name calling the little darlings these days. They are fat hogs. People should take their kids out to the woods and go hiking and get some of the fat off these lazy obese loads. These children are waddling around and you can hear them huffing and puffing through their nose and mouth. They’ve got a two-liter bottle of soda under one arm and a bag of “Family Size” Doritos under the other arm and their got a sausage in each fist and wearing a backpack full of snack cakes, Twizzlers, KING SIZE ripple chips. It’s disgusting. These little wussies look like “Fat Bastard” and are afraid of spiders or other insects yet sit in front of the computer for most of the day playing violent video games while their lifeless, mindless, parents dote over their every need. I think we should take them out in the woods and set them loose. Without a supply of snack cakes the deer population would be reduced in days. They’d be shouting at the deer “GET IN MY BELLY!”

Ted Nugent, if I recall, only eats meat that he kills. So, for him, it’s more than sport, it’s food. I did an exercise in my 6th grade science class that demonstrated the importance of hunting. Deers’ natural predators are few and far between and they will starve to death if they get over populated.

I normally won’t rise to the bait, but will today. WB, if Ted Nugent is your designated banner-carrier for the hunting crowd, you are hurting for a role model big-time. Nugent is a drunken moron who ran through millions of dollars and wound up broke, while hurting God knows how many people around him. And when the day comes that I or anyone with reasonable intelligence can’t out-debate him, I’ll never touch a keyboard again.

“Amazed,” as ever you make some good points, but I do not exempt myself from guilt in our contribution toward habitat destruction. I just try to minimize my impact as much as possible, by recycling, buying already-standing homes instead of new ones, conserving energy with small cars, and in general leaving as small an imprint on the planet as I can. Oh — and by not hunting. I don’t deny that deer overpopulation is a problem, but I’ve never met a hunter whose decision to shoot Bambi was in any way influenced by that. Shoot whatever you want; just don’t wait for me to cheer you on.

And Hoytowner, you are missing the point. It doesn’t matter that our ancestors hunted for food. That has nothing to do with us. We are modern, sentient beings who are not indelibly imprinted with the need to hunt for survival. If we hunt, we do it because we enjoy it, and it doesn’t elevate hunters to a status of nobility because Great-Great Grandpaw shot squirrels for lunch.

Nugent no longer tells the story after aligning himself with the Reichwing Party but he used to be so proud of how he got out of Vietnam. He used tell how when he got his draft notice, two weeks prior to reporting him he began urinating, defacting and vomiting on himself. He didn’t bathe or change clothes for the two weeks. He then reported in and they threw out the door telling him that he was the most disgusting thing they had ever seen and needed psychiatric help. He then proceeded to go home, bathed, changed clothes and then took himself out for a steak dinner to celebrate. Nugent is okay with others sacrificing their lives in war but like Cheney and Clinton had other priorities.

WB,

The question was, why do hunters following the rules get a bad rap?
It is precisely because of the “style or manner” of Mr. Nugent and others like him. He can’t articulate the facts to the uninformed if people are so put off by his style that they will not listen.
I know and respect many hunters, and yes, I’ve read some of Mr. Nugent’s larger than life purple prose about his pursuit of game. I know that appeals to some folk, but ol’ Ted using his public persona probably does a better job of preaching to the choir than convincing non-hunters to take up arms.

I went out into the plant and ask some of the hunters the question. Why do hunters who follow the rules get such a bad rap, I ask them. The answer was fast and easy. We don’t get a bad rap from other hunters, just people that don’t hunt. Different strokes for different folks might be the best answer to this question.

Teresa, without jumping in the fight too deep, I don’t think Ted is trying to convince any non-hunters to take up hunting. He takes the extreme position on hunting in a counter to PETA-type, anti-hunting folks. Is he harsh and unapololgetic in his delivery? Yup.

Been hunting since I was about 12 or 13. While hunting out west (age 33) one beautiful, crisp, cool fall morning I saw mule deer, buck at about 125 yards. I sighted my .308 BLR and dropped him where he stood…very nice shot! Excited, I took a fast walk, almost a trot up the slope to my kill. As I stood over the animal congratulating myself on the perfectly placed shot through the heart my eyes fell upon his eyes. When I looked into those huge, black, lifeless eyes of that deer the question that I could not get out of my mind was “why?” It felt wrong. I could not answer the question of “why” I had killed that animal. It certainly wasn’t for food, my family was not needy. I came to the conclusion that the mule deer died to prop up my ego, to make me feel more of a man. I have not hunted since.

So be it Lunar. If you don’t have a little remorse for an animal you just killed, you aren’t human. My remorse lasts about one minute or until the gutting process begins and then it’s just future steaks.

Now think about that the next time you fry a chicken or order a steak or hamburger. Something died in order for you to eat.

Yes, people are quick to criticize deer hunters.

A true conservationist, one who really cares about our land and wildlife, will understand and support the need for effectively managing our wildlife. Hunting is one of the more successful methods used to accomplish this today. Those who criticize us who do hunt are saying, let the deer die a slow painful death by starving.
Or, they are saying, we don’t raise crops so we don’t give a damn about our farmers and how many millions of dollars they lose each year because of deer eating their crops. They know nothing about conservation and are voicing an uneducated opinion.(knuckleheads)
There may be quite a few people who have a bit of difficulty in understanding that deer hunting is going a long way toward preserving deer herds, but it is. Without the hunting, in fact, there is little doubt that the deer would be a lot worse off, and may even be on the way toward extinction.

One of the biggest points is that natural predators for deer have been hunted extensively, with a result that there is much less natural culling of the herds. This means that there are more deer, but they include weak and old animals that would normally be hunted and killed by predators. Wolves, bears, and cougars, which once roamed from coast to coast are now much more rare.
This means that the animals that once controlled the deer population no longer exist in numbers great enough to make a significant difference on deer populations in most states. By killing off the predators, man has established himself as the prime predator. However, that also means he has the responsibility to keep the herds culled. This is done through hunting.

Amazed, you’re right again. If I truly had the strength of my oonvictions, I would be a vegan. I’m not, and yes, it occurs to me that I contribute to the abusive conditions under which chickens, pigs, cattle, etc. are kept and slaughtered to serve my hunger. I have an idea that if I had ever worked in a slaughterhouse, or perhaps in a Tyson chicken plant or some such, I might never touch meat or poultry again. I guess I’ve perfected the art of drawing the line between hunting and raising domestic animals for the purpose of killing and eating them, which I reluctantly condone — as long as I’m not the one doing the killing. And I repeat — I do not denigrate those who hunt. I just don’t want to, and I will never see it as “sport.”

The deer come in my back yard and eat all my sunflower seed in my bird feeders, and I watch them through the greenhouse window and delight in their grace and beauty. The thought of shooting one of them is about as appealing to me as considering nailing my foot to the floor and seeing how fast I can go around in circles.

Boyd, I’d shoot 1000 deer and millions of other animals before I nail any part of my body to anything. I’m selfish like that.

They get a bad rap for the same reason any group gets a bad rap: Somebody does something stupid or dangerous, and the assumption that ‘all’ those who participate are represented by the idiot.

It doesn’t help when really bad things happen (they do, every year), and the hunters close ranks. I remember a story from some years ago where a young woman who lived with her family in the woods was shot and killed by a deer hunter in front of her house. The hunter was acquitted because she wasn’t wearing blaze orange. In front of her house. In a clearing several hundred yards across. Where were the responsible hunters then?

To answer the letter writer’s question, let’s be honest. Most hunters are gun nuts who will support the NRA till death do them part…regardless of cop-killer bullets, semi-automatic weapons, Saturday night specials, and unregulated gun shows where anyone can buy a gun with no-questions asked….The gun show “dealers of death” sell uzi’s used to obliterate living creatures including high school students.

Other than that, I don’t think hunters get a bad rap.

I think the question was answered before our typing began. Good hunters take the rap for bad hunters. Just like any other category of people. But why does society in general tend to have such a negative attitude? I can’t speak for others but here’s my feeling. I have no moral qualms about killing for food, whether it’s in the woods with a gun or in the slaughterhouse for my supermarket. Animals kill other animals to survive. It’s perfectly Natural and the Way Things Are. But hunting bothers me if it is considered a “sport.” Sport implies taking pleasure in the outcome, and being happy that something else is now dead doesn’t sit well with me. Do modern hunters follow Native American custom and thank the animal for giving it’s life to provide food for others? I’m thinking not. In addition, we historically removed so many natural predators (like the wolf) not only to protect livestock but because hunters of the time were whining that the predators were taking too many deer (or whatever) and they had nothing to kill anymore. Oh wah, wah, wah. Now we “have to” kill off x-number of deer because their population is exploding. Seems to me that we created the deer problem to appease hunters and it has just become a redundant full circle.

Sorry I’m getting in on this so late, but I used to do my postings early in the AM before the day really started.

I think we can hold Walt Disney responsible for humanizing animals.

Honestly, its righteousness. When I decide not to do something, like hunting, I make it wrong for myself and the others who do it. If I were to choose not to do it, I leave the possibility of it alive for others without judgment.

Most people operate in a world of decision and not choice driven by the desire to be right about themselves and to make others wrong.

You know who has the toughest go. The supermarket butcher. I would suspect most people approach the meat counter these days with an uneasy feeling. The butcher has to expereince that anxiety. We should start a campirh, “Love your Butcher”, no we should change that, “Love your meat cutter,”, no “Love your protein and fat worker.”

The people behind the fish counter have an easier time I think.

Everybody loves the produce workers.

From one who enjoys eating meat with my vegetables.

I have always wonder why we pretend to honor the spirits of animals more than plants. Plants seem to provide so much more for us.

Here’s one more little thought. I’ve never been hunting but I used to fish as a kid. Kind of hard to get all emotional about non-cuddly scaled creatures, right? Well, I guess I was either incredibly soft-hearted or entirely pragmatic. One day when I was about 14 I realized I was killing fish and I had no intention of eating one. (Didn’t go to waste. Gave them to somebody else.) So I said to myself, “If you ain’t gonna eat it, don’t kill it.” Today I might feel differently because as an adult I love fish.

One more thing. One day when I was lamenting bunny damage in my garden, I thought, “Good thing I don’t live where deer abound. I’d be out there chasing Bambi with a howitzer!”

Once again. I realize the need for hunting. Some of my best friends are hunters and I’ve eaten the deer sausage they provided. But I’ve also seen a couple of my hunting friends get out of the “sport” because other hunter-wannabes were making them nuts.

Thanks to all for contributing. I am impressed at how civil this conversation was, even with a wide variety of viewpoints.

Garrison, I would like to address your comment: “Most hunters are gun nuts who will support the NRA till death do them part…regardless of cop-killer bullets, semi-automatic weapons, Saturday night specials, and unregulated gun shows where anyone can buy a gun with no-questions asked….The gun show “dealers of death” sell uzi’s used to obliterate living creatures including high school students.”

It’s likely inaccurate to say that most hunters are NRA members. While many are, there are more hunters than NRA members.

“Cop-killer” bullets are not really defined, by the NRA or the government. Many groups have used the word to describe ammunition capable of penetrating body armor. That would include much of the ammunition used in big-game hunting.

“Semi-automatic” weapons are not necessarily synonymous with Uzi’s or other “assault weapons.” Many hunters use semi-automatic weapons that fire hunting cartridges and hold 5 or fewer rounds.

The gun show issue is a bit of a misunderstanding, which the media (my publication included) seldom clarifies. All firearms sold by licensed dealers must include a background check, with no exceptions. The majority of sellers at gun shows are dealers, in part because the BATF is quite strict in its enforcement of gun laws. Individuals (non-licensed) may sell firearms at gun shows but may not do so in an effort to make a profit because then they’d be unlicensed dealers, a major offense. Individuals may also sell firearms outside of gun shows, such as by taking out a classified at in the Post-Dispatch, and still not need to do a background check. Not only are private sellers (as in non-dealers) not required to conduct the checks, they lack the means. The FBI NICS (background check) system is available only to licensed dealers.

Hunters get a bad rap for several reasons, the main one is only bad incidents are printed in the media. Today the media is dominated by left leaning (mostly) liberals who are handicapped by their lack of knowledge on the subject, and srories like the Sedalia man do not help. (although we hunters do like to hear about those stories, especially when no person gets really hurt) Hunters do police their own kind and do not tolerate those who will not play by the rules, and won’t let others (like the Sedalia guy) forget their mishaps. Hunters in Missouri donated 90 tons of lean organic meat to the needy last year alone. (90 TONS!!!) Let’s hear of any other group in Mo. that has equaled that? Hunters (and fishermen) spend tens of millions of dollars on equipment, groceries, motels, restaurants, ammo, and processing almost exclusively in rural areas, which is a huge boost to those local economies. Not to mention the tens of millions of dollars spent on tags, and licenses that help keep our Conservation agency one of the best in the United States. The wonderful things that deer hunters do are not reported much. (bad stories outnumber the good by 10 to 1 and are never in the post dispatch except maybe once a year on the back of the sports section on Saturdays.) Yes as with any walk of life there are some bad apples, but that applies to ALL who live and breathe.

People like P. Carpenter, Nugent was young, Teresa, lunar, Boyd, Karen, and Dave Misham are all prime examples of the uninformed bashing something ONLY because of their beliefs, and they have that right but look unintelligent in the process. But they have missed the point and should not take part in this discussion solely as a cultural assault. How many of them have given back as BIG as the deer hunters they are putting down? Very little I suspect.

I as one take a deer for my own consumption and another to donate to the needy every year, and I feel very good about that.

I think the main reason hunters get “a bad rap” is the bias against gun owners and southerners. I can’t think of a movie where the brainy guy has a slow southern drawl – but I can think of plenty of movies where the bad guy does. The bias against guns runs so deep that when they made a movie of John Grisham’s “The Runaway Jury”, Hollywood changed the plot – instead the tobacco industry, they made gun makers the villains. I guess more Hollywood types smoke than own guns.

Personally, I don’t hunt, but I know plenty of people who do. Most of them are technical professionals, certainly not the stereotypical hillbilly cracking beers and blasting anything that moves. All of them eat what they kill, and are generous with it (I’ve enjoyed much deer sausage over the years). I don’t know of any that take a trophy and leave the deer – although I did know one who agonized over wounding a deer but not being able to track it down. He felt awful that his poor shot had caused the animal to suffer.

I guess legitimate arguments could be had about their motivations (machismo vs. environmental management), but the results of their actions are positive. The fees they generate help pay for wildlife management. The land hunters acquire and leave fallow make up large parts of the “natural habitat” that the animals have left. And yes, hunters prevent overpopulation and the attendant starvation that would cause. But despite the good that comes from hunting, lots of people will still insult and demonize the tradition. The old truism definitely applies here – You can’t please everyone.

It can hardly be ignored any more that Americans are suffering from twofold pathology: 1) severe political brainwashing, and 2) the need to mind their own damned business. Anyone who participates in any facet of what used to be traditional American culture is now mocked and derided by “enlightened” urban elitists.

In particular, the fact that residents of St. Louis do it with unusual glee shows how woefully ignorant they are as to their actual status in the hierarchy of urban elitists. You can make fun of “rednecks,” “hillbillies,” and “white trash,” but know that just because you live in a neighborhood with a Quicktrip or a 7-11, you’re no better than anyone else.

From what I can tell, there are whole bunch of readers of STLtoday.com that I should go hunting with.

Thanks again for the interaction here. And thanks to my colleague Kurt Greenbaum for bringing up the topic.

Teak, a little advice….You will never have a rational conversation with Garrison.

Looney…it’s not my job to be rational.
I provoke thought from those who are capable of thinking.

While I do not hunt, I do not disagree with those that do, if they play by the rules and are respectful of the animal. I do not believe in shooting an animal to injure it, that’s not right. If you are going to hunt shoot to kill so the animal doesn’t suffer. God put animals on this Earth for us to eat. In my opinion if you are going to hunt, you need to be willing to eat the animal as well. Or at least donate the meat to a butcher or to a place where other people can purchase and eat it.

“Looney…it’s not my job to be rational.”—-Garrison

It’s a good thing being rational isn’t your job. No union in the world could save you from you incompetence.

You don’t provoke thought from anyone. I’ve already nailed your MO. You pick a topic, google it, then pick a few things that support your lame position. Many of the times you just copy someone else’s work that supports your opinion. You have no clue about the hunters that are NRA members, styles of bullets, or hunting period. You just have some stereotypes of what you perceive hunters to be.

You’re funny Looney…
Hey, I have an uncle who was a nice church-going pacifist until he started getting NRA membership information through the mail. Now he drinks, hates kids and dogs, and carries a concealed weapon when he visits his wife at the nursing home.

Garrison,

You can’t generalize about NRA members – I’m one. I also have a CCW, collect firearms and know entirely too much about ballistics. But I love my children, have pets, and even voted for Obama.

Sometimes, the NRA acts more like the National Republican Association than the National Rifle Association, but they always stand up for our second amendment rights. To borrow from the other discussion, just as not all Union members are militant, neither are all NRA members. Each group has their agenda (protecting labor rights and protecting second amendment rights), but only the fringes take these legitimate causes to extremes.

I know it is tempting to judge a group by its most extreme/vocal/colorful members, but doing so rarely gives you a true feel for the group – and this applies to everyone from Hunters to Muslims.

Enough bashing hunters and hunting, already!! By the way, I don’t hunt so I’m not biased towards either side of the argument.

Hunting is an enjoyable and traditional way for them to procure some game while fulfilling the necessary function of keeping the animal population in check.

The more astute of you may recognize the invisible hand (Adam Smith) at work here. Hunters seeking to fufill their self interest (meat/recreation) are at the same time contributing to the greater good (thinning herd), whether or not their intention is selfish or altruistic, not that their intentions matter either way.

Now, if you are one of those well meaning but naive people who think that the animals should be left alone, you haven’t been paying attention to the enormous environmental damage that feral pigs have, or the explosion in the population of the otters that were reintroduced to MO a couple of decades ago.

We are fortunate to have a Conservation dept. that recognizes that hunting/trapping/fishing is an effective means to manage wildlife populations. That is truly a great example of your tax dollars at work.

Enough bashing hunters and hunting, already!! By the way, I don\’t hunt so I\’m not biased towards either side of the argument.

Hunting is an enjoyable and traditional way for them to procure some game while fulfilling the necessary function of keeping the animal population in check.

The more astute of you may recognize the invisible hand (Adam Smith) at work here. Hunters seeking to fufill their self interest (meat/recreation) are at the same time contributing to the greater good (thinning herd), whether or not their intention is selfish or altruistic, not that their intentions matter either way.

Now, if you are one of those well meaning but naive people who think that the animals should be left alone, you haven\’t been paying attention to the enormous environmental damage that feral pigs have, or the explosion in the population of the otters that were reintroduced to MO a couple of decades ago.

We are fortunate to have a Conservation dept. that recognizes that hunting/trapping/fishing is an effective means to manage wildlife populations. That is truly a great example of your tax dollars at work.

Mr. Phillips… I’m sure PETA and other similar organizations contribute more to factory farm animal concerns than Ducks Unlimited, Whitetail Unlimited, et al. What does the dollar amount and/or the particulars of the cause prove? The difference is the motivating factor: PETA and organizations like it are acting out of the animals’ interests, not out of their vested interest in a hobby. It’s in the interests of the organizations you cite to do what they do.

I certainly enjoy camping, mountain biking and hiking in the great outdoors, but hanging around outside in cold temps on a tiny stool and little vials of doe piss scent with a rifle in hand, and then having to haul something dead onto your car and tie it down (or throw it in your truck bed) isn’t my idea of fun. I have no beef (or venison, for that matter) with anyone who chooses to do it responsibly and safely. But not enjoying an activity is no reason for me to dis it.

Plus, even though I wouldn’t hunt, I do eat meat, so I can’t find fault with anyone who kills and eats their own meat. In fact, in many respects, that’s kind of cool. We like our meat in this modern society, we just don’t want to have to kill, clean (or field-dress), and butcher the animal to get to it. Most people prefer to have it wrapped us for us, waiting at the grocery store.

Hunting is largely referenced in country music and in the acts of the “Blue Collar Comedy” stand-up entertainers. It’s a favorite in rural areas and a “Red State” pastime. It’s just another cultural touchstone - like vacationing in Branson, living in trailer homes, country music, tractor pulls, and NASCAR, that is associated with redneck-ishness. It’s another battle of the culture wars, for sure.

Moneyed, privileged people in our country and Europe also used to like to hunt in Africa - except not for meat, but for the sole purpose of getting a zebra skin rug or an elephant leg wastebasket. This to me is far less worthy of respect than deer hunting and eating meat, but I think people forget that hunting was once the pastime of the rich, not the rural middle class. I’m a liberal woman and definitely no hunter, but I will defend law-abiding deer hunters. Don’t trust a deer with its eyes closed!!!

Asia… The masses get their meat from factory farms. It’s not Bambi. There’s no comparison between the two. And one of the big problems is the meat they are eating `didn’t’ walk about on all fours. They were crammed in as tight as possible to maximize profit for the company. Have you even researched the issue of how most of the meat in grocery stores is supplied?

Also, McDonald’s, Burger King, Wendy’s, etc.?

Geez, you don’t think it’s drunken bubba and his plump little boyz giving hunters a bad rap, do ya? I watched a man in a Ford pick up truck (yeah, bubba likes those Fords) pull a rifle from the back of his truck and shoot at a deer right by a school on our street. This is a wooded suburb, mind you. I can also go right by the deer in my yard (which I don’t feed), so your pal is off the mark Kurt. On a few things. Hunters who follow the rules don’t get a bad rap. It’s just that fewer of those kinds of hunters exist now. It’s always fun to see the underdog win. If this guy had any balls at all he would be admiring his superior adversary (the deer) in public forums. Look, these doofuses shoot the largest and best genetic specimens, then say they are good hunters. A good hunter leaves the best to breed more of the best. None of these humans are superior to these beasts who can survive, even amongst man’s follies and earth foolishness.

“People like P. Carpenter, Nugent was young, Teresa, lunar, Boyd, Karen, and Dave Misham are all prime examples of the uninformed bashing something ONLY because of their beliefs, and they have that right but look unintelligent in the process. But they have missed the point and should not take part in this discussion solely as a cultural assault. How many of them have given back as BIG as the deer hunters they are putting down?” -A. Patriot

I was not bashing the great majority of responsible deer hunters, although I did express my unvarnished opinion of Mr. Nugent (who is a celebrity, and I’m sure his approach has been dissed by people more colorfully than I did). You need to read my remarks again if you think I am anti-hunter. And I can assure you that I have “given back” to the natural world over the last 25 years in many many hours of unpaid, and often dirty, wet and cold service to Missouri public and private land natural resources– at least as much as a deer hunter who annually has all the fun of the hunt and the kill, and then “magnanimously” donates to Share the Harvest.

I have not missed the point; the question at hand was why do lawful hunters get a bad rap, and yes, that is a cultural question.

Because the powers that be want to make all the gun owners out to be crazy people..That way they can get the guns and kill everyone!

The problem is with the identification of a “deer hunter” many men go “deer hunting” once a year with the only real desire is to get out of the house, drink like a fish, wonder around in the woods and maybe just maybe shoot a deer.
The true hunter has been schooled by his father, grandfather, uncle or other close friend in the true meaning and correct methods in taking game. He his a great respect for the quarry he pursues and takes all necessary actions to see that the game is taken swiftly and fairly.
The true hunter knows more about the quarry than the average biologist, he works with the land to produce food and cover for the continued survival of the animals in the area.
Hunting is not a sport to many of us hunters, it is a way of life. It is a philosophy towards life.
Then some A–h— comes along and shoots the road signs and drives through the local landowners fences.
One bad apple, you know.