Mr Carlton,

This is regarding your previous editorial but I believe addresses this one as well. Please respond.

Your editorial highlights the philosophy of death espoused by so many “liberals.”

You would be happier if everyone lived an average of 70 years rather than 71 for “the poor” and 75 for “the wealthy.” I agree there should not be two-tiered health care system; there should be a 300 hundred million tiered health care system. Each person should obtain their (or their children’s) health care, just as they should obtain there own food and shelter.

If your so-called wealthy decide the thing of most value to them is their health or long life and want to spend their life’s work on trying to find the fountain of youth they should be free to do so (and doctors, scientists and insurance companies should be free to sell their services to them).

The only people you mention in your editorial who have a legitimate claim to government support are those who die early as a result of violence against their persons. Of course it costs more to protect someone’s life in a poor area and we would never expect “the poor” to pay for their own protection or health.

Mr. Carlton, as a citizen of this country I pledge my support, monetary and otherwise, to protect my fellow citizens from violence, but your assertion that I should pay for medical advice for anyone else concerning gastric reflux or diarrhea is support of theft. Your assertion that I should not have the right to dispense my property to live the longest life I can obtain is supporting my death.

John, why don’t Democrats petition perhaps McCaskill to write a bill that makes hospitals for profit only - since they do make a large profit - and use those real estate taxes and income taxes they’d have to pay to be used to pay for health insurance for the needy. Why, as Mr. Lipstein stated today, do the hospitals “use the money collected from those who do pay to care for those who don’t pay.”
This is a ridiculous system at best, illegal at worst.

Part #2 - John, the present system would be like Schnucks charging me a few cents more on every product I buy, putting it into a jar and if the guy behind me can’t afford food, he just reaches into the jar and uses that to pay for his food. Why should I and all other business owners have to pay property and income taxes, but hospitals don’t?

Mr. Centrist,

I do not believe either of you should be paying income or property taxes except to pay for the defense of your property and your person.

If you wish to avoid paying for others medical care, I suggest you locate a hospital which does not treat patients who do not have insurance and are unable to pay. I believe the Mayo Clinic is an example. You are free to purchase the product from whomever you choose, but once you pay, the hospital now has the money and can dispose of it however it wishes. If they want to provide care to the indigent that is fine with me. If you have a problem take your business elsewhere.

Hey, you didn’t really think the editors would respond to the comments did you? This Carlton guy has just stuck his head in the sand and thinks he can just guilt us all into giving up what rightfully belongs to us with a few stories about people with cancer.

I donate to several charities that provide care for children with catastrophic illnesses, but it is robbery for this guy to advocate taking my property to pay for somebodies indigestion or arthritis or anything else. No one’s “needs” give them a right to rob me or anyone else.

Mr Carlton, will you respond?

Mr. Deal - to make matters worse, I also pay the total healthcare insurance tab for my employees and their families for my small business. But what the heck, if I make a profit I have to pay the gov 39%(?) in capital gains. I might as well help my employees rather than the gov.

As for as Mr. C - I have met with him. He is 100% behind a socialized healthcare system and doesn’t support any other option. He works for the PD editorial page - what would you expect?

Thanks for commenting folks. I’ve been out of town, so I apologize for not responding sooner.

Mr. Deal, I’m surprised by your assertion that I or anyone else would prefer to have all average life expectancy lowered. I’m suggesting that we increase it. It’s worth noting that in other developed countries, average life expectancy and average healthy life expectancy — the number years spent without major disease — are both longer than in the U.S., even though their GDP is less than ours. Obviously, the link between income and life expectancy is strong but not absolute.

I’m always puzzled by the assertion that people die prematurely because they don’t value their health. That’s certainly true for some people. But consider heart disease. We read every year about athletes collapsing and dying during workouts. What risk factor do they have? Most often, they’re simply born with heart conditions that go undiagnosed and result in fatal heart attacks. Dana Reeve, wife of actor Christopher Reeve, died of lung cancer even though she never smoked. What could she have done to live longer? What about the deaths of children?

Mr. Centerist, I think you’re confusing universal coverage with socialized medicine. We’ve called for universal coverage, not socialized medicine.

Medicare is universal coverage for the elderly. Everyone gets it, but the care is delivered by private doctors and private hospitals. Socialized medicine is where the government owns all the hospitals and directly employs the doctors. An example is the medical care provided to most U.S. military service men and women, as well as the president. The VA medical system is another example. There have been problems absorbing the surge of casualties from the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts, but both military and veterans care generally get high marks on quality and satisfaction.

In 1995 John Edwards working as a trial lawyerformed what is known as a “subchapter S corporation with himself as the sole shareholder. Over the next four years while making $26.9 million in earnings he paid himself $360,000 in salary and took the rest as corporate dividends.
Salary is of course subject to medicare taxes but dividends aren”t!
Senator and Mrs Edwards talk about the need to provide health care for all but that didn”t stop him from using a clever tax dodge to avoid paying $591,000 into the medicare system. Mrs Edwards is a smart and corageous woman but she obviously knew what her husband was doing. The above information is out of a WSJ editorial dated 7/13 /04.

Mr. Carlton,

I hope you had a good vacation.

As a medical writer I expect better than anecdotal stories about rare diseases that have no impact on the overall longevity of a large group. Perhaps a reference to the fact that the only intervention known to make a person live longer is a calorie restriction diet. How many people would choose to live 12 months longer and follow such a diet? I wouldn’t. You might say then that I don’t care about my health care right? Changing diet for patients is next to impossible.

Unfortunately, Mr Carlton you failed to address the major concern of both Mr Centrist and I: What right does one person have to take property from one person and use it for their medical care. You do not have the right to come to my house, confiscate my property and sell it in order to pay for anyone’s health care. How then does a government which derives all of its rights from the individual rights of its citizens magically obtain that right? It does not matter whether you call it socialized medicine or a subsidy for health care insurance you are still taking property from someone.

Finally you pick:
A) Mean life expectancy in ten years 81 years. “Poor” mean = 79. “Wealthy” mean = 85.
B) Mean life expectancy in ten years 83 years. “Poor” mean = 80. “Wealthy” mean = 90.
C) Mean life expectancy 80 years. Everybody the same.

I call your desire for equal life expectancy envy, covetousness and hatred of someone who works with their mind and body to pursue their happiness by living a long life.

Also, while I expect other bloggers to evade the argument I expect better of the editors of the paper. Please address the topics addressed in the comments. Thank you.

Mr. Deal,

You seem to believe that you don’t already pay for other people’s health care. That’s incorrect. You pay in the form of higher insurance premiums, higher co-payments and higher deductibles. That’s the result of what’s called a cost-shift. You also pay in the form of higher prices for consumer goods.

The question isn’t whether we should pay for each other’s health care, but rather what’s the most efficient way of doing it. One key reason that average life expectancy is longer in other developed countries is that they invest more heavily in prevention and less in specialist intervention after illness begins. About two-thirds of the doctors in the Netherlands (a country that has an individual insurance mandate) are general practitioners and one third are specialists. That’s true in most other developed countries as well. In the U.S., those proportions are exactly reversed.

John, thanks for explaining the diff between socialized and universal coverage. Socialized sounds like what Hillarycare was and in all honesty, I can’t believe that you don’t think that if universal care becomes the norm, that the democrats won’t take it to socialized medicine? They love control and big government and hate big industry. So just as they are planning to take away oils’ big tax breaks, why don’t they take away hospitals’ big tax breaks to pay for universal care. I’m tired of paying for everything for everyone else. Let the government use the government money they should be collecting already from these so-call “non-profit” hospitals to pay for health insurance for the needy. Why do I have to pay more taxes? I’m not the human ATM that Charlie Dooley thinks we are.