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Memo to the White House. Drive the center.
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Cardsfaninnashville
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Post subject: Re: Memo to the White House. Drive the center.
Posted: 04 Nov 2009 21:45 pm

RichieRichInStLouis wrote

Cardsfaninnashville wrote

thedjmic wrote

Cardsfaninnashville wrote

thedjmic wrote

Oh...you were watching the elections last night.


Was there a point here?

I'm missing it if there was.

So sorry...


The only way Dems (and Repubs) are going to find success is through the middle. Clinton's Hillarycare in '93 and rejection of radical values is case in point. He learned that he was going to have to govern from the center. This admin is learning the hard way.


The healthcare reform situation is very different now than it was in 1993. Individual healthcare and small and large business are struggling to pay for/keep their healthcare as cost climb far too fast.

I hold the insurance industry, their lobbyist and the current republican party, which is very far to the right and too entrenched to help the American people in the healthcare reform efforts.

The Republicans are using fear and stall tactics to try to defeat healthcare reform primarily b/c they believe it will hurt the POTUS and the Dems...

The Republican party leadership (Boehner, McConnell, Pawlenty, ect.) has never been so far to the right, so exclusive, and moving even further to the right.

Hillary Clinton's effort at this never had a chance because insurance was not really harming businesses in the early 1990's..

As far as radical values, we do agree. Bush43 was far right and eventually rejected (wihout 9-11 and Karl Rove, he would have been a one-termer).

I think lefties are very frustrated with the slow movement on healthcare and that the soldiers are not out of Iraq and back home, and the biggest that jobs have not come back from the meltdown at the end of he Bush era.

If jobs do bounce back in the next 12 months, the Dems will be okay. if not... Things will change again..


Why do lefties have the mindset that little has changed over the past 100+ years?

There was a time and a place that the Rockefellers and the Carnegies and the JP Morgans ran things, people worked from dusk to dawn and got paid little, didn't own their own houses, etc.

You guys act as if nothing has improved. It's as if all industries are secretly out to screw everyone and only this benevolent monarchy called the government is looking out for you...

God forbid if an insurance company is allowed to make a profit... That's immoral. Instead you would put the government and the class of political hacks that go with it in charge of health care. As if they are free of any corrupting influences.

I'm okay with you thinking the government is best suited to provide healthcare coverage. I heavily disagree, but that is your opinion. However, must your side always create a villian and run them down to get what you want?

Any indication of anyone in any significant industry getting a big bonus and you guys freak out and want to throw the industry into the arms of the federal government. You use fuzzy statistic such as the total profit they made without regard to what percentage that actually is to justify how evil and greedy they are. For example, an insurance company might have 100 billion in costs, so a profit of 4% would be 4 billion. So, instead of giving context you might say they made 4 billion in profits and rip how greedy that is. Or they might have made 3% profit last year and you guys would crow about how their profits went up 50% if they made 4.5% profit this year. You use the 50% number to make it seem like they made obscene profits rather than the 1.5% increase.

Could you guys please stick to facts and context and not use hyperbole? Furthermore, could you not demonize your opponents for having an alternative position?


Without real numbers, your hypothesis on percentages is meaningless. I look at insurance like Ma Bell many years ago. It's a virtual state-by-state monopoly and the insurance industry has the systems so rigged that the average person is s-c-r-e-w-e-d and this situation is getting worse. Pay more and more, getting less and less coverage and getting dropped at the 1st sign of a health problem.

I think employer to employeee based insurance is dying - virtually dead. It's helping bankrupt small business and will eventually have to goto indivudual insurance.

I want the same thing the congress critters have. OPTIONS. All of it on a menu on my computer. I'll pick what I want and can afford like my home insurance and car insurance.

Again. IF the republican were doing anything bt playing POLITICAL GAMES, they would have long ago offered a comprehensive healthcare plan. But they haven't. They just want to undercut this POTUS and da*n the American people or trying to offer a better solution.

I just cannot believe so many can't see thru the forest of "death panels" and "socialism" and the gamesmanship of the politics of fear and DEMAND better solutions.

Instead, the "alternative" position from the Republicans is to offer nothing. It speaks for itself.

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the rake
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Post subject: Re: Memo to the White House. Drive the center.
Posted: 04 Nov 2009 21:57 pm

Cardsfaninnashville wrote


6) Funny about Reagan. He was thought of as an inclusive centrist Republican. He would NOT have been welcome in the current Republican party. I honestly believe that.


Neither would my favorite Republican, Jack Danforth.

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sadfan
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Post subject: Re: Memo to the White House. Drive the center.
Posted: 04 Nov 2009 22:18 pm
Comparing Jack Danforth to Ronald Reagon is bogus. That is like comparing Danforth to Kit Bond. Bogus. Moderate = wish-wash.

I commend the Danforth family (foundation) for all they have done, but to say they are conservative is to say Dick Gephardt was conservative.

And Dick Gephardt was socially conservative until he needed to ditch that for the national stage.

Mr. Gephardt was anti-abortion all the way up to his Presidential run in 1988. When he was an alderman in the city of St. Louis, he was totally against abortion. Keeping his image as "Mr. Baptist", and keeping the Catholics happy.

Once Mr. Gephardt decided to pursue a higher office, that suddenly was not an issue. Mr. Gephardt suddenly had his "road to Damascus". But he went the other way.

It is a shame he changed his mind. It usually goes the other way.

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thedjmic
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Post subject: Re: Memo to the White House. Drive the center.
Posted: 04 Nov 2009 22:24 pm
Cardsfaninnashville, are you the only poster on this board who is capable of having an intelligent and respectful discussion about politics?
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sadfan
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Post subject: Re: Memo to the White House. Drive the center.
Posted: 04 Nov 2009 22:36 pm
no, they are one of the many that can link to a lot of bs. Kind of like the rest of us. Bs. Nothing. Bs, no bs. Blah!
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sec. 593
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Post subject: Re: Memo to the White House. Drive the center.
Posted: 04 Nov 2009 22:50 pm

sadfan wrote


I commend the Danforth family (foundation) for all they have done, but to say they are conservative is to say Dick Gephardt was conservative.


One issue decides if you are conservative or not?

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sec. 593
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Post subject: Re: Memo to the White House. Drive the center.
Posted: 04 Nov 2009 22:53 pm

JohnDenny wrote


The repubs are not trying to go far right they are trying to go where Reagan operated.


Which of the recent victorious Republican candidates are reminiscent of Reagan? What about the last election?

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ambill10
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Post subject: Re: Memo to the White House. Drive the center.
Posted: 05 Nov 2009 01:21 am

Cardsfaninnashville wrote

Without real numbers, your hypothesis on percentages is meaningless. I look at insurance like Ma Bell many years ago. It's a virtual state-by-state monopoly and the insurance industry has the systems so rigged that the average person is s-c-r-e-w-e-d and this situation is getting worse. Pay more and more, getting less and less coverage and getting dropped at the 1st sign of a health problem.

I think employer to employeee based insurance is dying - virtually dead. It's helping bankrupt small business and will eventually have to goto indivudual insurance.

I want the same thing the congress critters have. OPTIONS. All of it on a menu on my computer. I'll pick what I want and can afford like my home insurance and car insurance.

Again. IF the republican were doing anything bt playing POLITICAL GAMES, they would have long ago offered a comprehensive healthcare plan. But they haven't. They just want to undercut this POTUS and da*n the American people or trying to offer a better solution.

I just cannot believe so many can't see thru the forest of "death panels" and "socialism" and the gamesmanship of the politics of fear and DEMAND better solutions.

Instead, the "alternative" position from the Republicans is to offer nothing. It speaks for itself.


The idea that Republicans have no ideas is blatantly wrong. They have proposed plenty of solutions to the competition and cost issues, but the Democrats control both houses by too large of margins for the Republicans to even get a bill into committees.

I agree with everything you said about making health insurance like car insurance. The problem is a lack of competition and free information in the industry. The current health care legislation does nothing to increase competition other than create a government option.

A government option will be so bureaucratic and over-budget that it will not offer real competition. We just need to eliminate the system of state-isolate insurance shopping. I too see the employer-based system being fazed out and that is a good thing IMO.

The Republicans, especially Boehner have been talking up ideas like increasing competition and addressing the lawsuit issues. Medical costs are being driven up by the cost of malpractice insurance, plain and simple. The Democrats' bill would shift who pays for health care, it would not do anything to reduce the cost being paid.

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