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So, what are you in for?
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rtrue
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Post subject: So, what are you in for?
Posted: 06 Nov 2009 18:55 pm
Not content to simply help those who need help, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is presenting a bill that could mean jail time for people who choose not to buy health insurance!

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“H.R. 3962 provides that an individual (or a husband and wife in the case of a joint return) who does not, at any time during the taxable year, maintain acceptable health insurance coverage for himself or herself and each of his or her qualifying children is subject to an additional tax.”

“If the government determines that the taxpayer’s unpaid tax liability results from willful behavior, the following penalties could apply…”


“Criminal penalties

Prosecution is authorized under the Code for a variety of offenses. Depending on the level of the noncompliance, the following penalties could apply to an individual:

• Section 7203 – misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.

• Section 7201 – felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years.”


http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/UploadedFiles/JCTletter110509.pdf


Is that what liberalism has become? Throwing people in jail who will not conform?

How in the world can a decision to decline to buy health insurance be a felony? How can this be???

Please, someone defend this!

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mommyof3
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Post subject: Re: So, what are you in for?
Posted: 06 Nov 2009 19:03 pm
Thanks for posting this, rtrue.

I will be very interested to see if anyone can defend this...

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Paully Thompson
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Post subject: Re: So, what are you in for?
Posted: 06 Nov 2009 19:09 pm
Isn't the whole purpose of the government run health care proposal to help homeless people, unemployed people, and people who struggle to make ends meet get access to health care? Isn't it those people who want health care reform because they can't afford health insurance?

Looks like those very people are going to be the ones tossed in prison. [/i]

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Brian L
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Post subject: Re: So, what are you in for?
Posted: 06 Nov 2009 19:14 pm
It's along the same lines as the failure to drive with insurance laws.

You can argue for or against the validity of that comparison all you like (I'm leaning against the comparison, though I still agree that health insurance should be a mandatory purchase for those who can afford it), but the bill simply carries that comparison to a comparative criminal offense.

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beerster
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Post subject: Re: So, what are you in for?
Posted: 06 Nov 2009 19:15 pm
The same penalties happen to you if you don't pay your income tax. It's no big deal.
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parsifal
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Post subject: Re: So, what are you in for?
Posted: 06 Nov 2009 19:16 pm
Hmmm... You can already be fined for not having driver's insurance while driving.

You can already be fined/imprisoned for not paying taxes.

You can be fined/imprisoned for lying to the federal government generally -- even about something as simple as what your favorite color is.

Here's a good question -- why can't conservatives just obey the damned law and be done with it?

So let's see what the equation is -- virtually universal health care coverage versus the ever-lasting desire to be stupid at any cost exhibited by conservatives... Which should I choose? What's that? Choosing health care for virtually everyone ALSO horks off every halfwit this side of the Pecos? It's the easiest choice I've ever made.

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rtrue
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Post subject: Re: So, what are you in for?
Posted: 06 Nov 2009 19:21 pm
It's only a guess, but my theory on why failure to buy insurance is to be criminalized is that the insurance companies need to have some way to force healthy people to pay their exorbitant rates.

I'm sure this was negotiated with the insurance lobby so that profitable customers (young, healthy, no dependents) would not be tempted to opt out for a few years as they currently do now. Many of today's uninsured choose not to be insured.

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A subset of voluntarily uninsured people are young and healthy, who may believe they don't need health coverage or that it's a bad deal because of the low probability that they'll use it. The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services estimates that 44 percent of the uninsured are between 18 and 34 years old.

Though not all young invincibles are playing the odds by choice, about 9 percent of uninsured people between the ages 18 and 24 have received affordable offers of insurance through their employers, said Lisa Dubay, a Johns Hopkins University professor. Another 14 percent could afford to buy coverage on the private market. Dubay, also an Urban Institute scholar, expects to publish a report on the topic soon. Her analysis is based on Census Bureau's health insurance data for 2008 and the percentage of person's income needed to obtain coverage. She estimates people earning two to four times the poverty line, for instance, could only afford to spend 10 percent of their income on insurance. "The young people are disproportionately uninsured, but they also have low incomes," she says.

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2009/October/04/npr-voluntarily-uninsured-explainer.aspx



This provision also allows the politicians to proudly proclaim that all Americans are now covered. They will fail to mention that they have done so with the threat of jail against those who don't conform. It's more Dickensian than Orwellian!

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L88
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Post subject: Re: So, what are you in for?
Posted: 06 Nov 2009 19:26 pm

beerster wrote

The same penalties happen to you if you don't pay your income tax. It's no big deal.


Yeah let's join the mindless religion of the goverment of beerster and mindlessly accept what they want to bill us!

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mommyof3
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Post subject: Re: So, what are you in for?
Posted: 06 Nov 2009 19:30 pm
You are forced to buy car insurance only if you have chosen to buy a car. Health insurance is something you will have to buy if you are a human being living in the United States as a legal citizen. No choice.

Wait...I thought liberals didn't like government telling them what to do with their bodies???

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beerster
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Post subject: Re: So, what are you in for?
Posted: 06 Nov 2009 19:40 pm

mommyof3 wrote

You are forced to buy car insurance only if you have chosen to buy a car. Health insurance is something you will have to buy if you are a human being living in the United States as a legal citizen. No choice.

Wait...I thought liberals didn't like government telling them what to do with their bodies???


Let's pretend you don't have insurance, OK? Then you do something a little stupid like jaywalk across the street at night, and you get run over by a hit and run driver. Somebody calls the cops, and they come to where you're laying unconscious. What should they do with you? What if it's one of your 3 kids laying on the street?

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rtrue
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Post subject: Re: So, what are you in for?
Posted: 06 Nov 2009 19:50 pm
It looks the best they can muster is comparing it to auto insurance and taxes! The latter is particularly amusing since the President claimed that he would not raise taxes on anyone making less than $250,000 per year, yet he will sign a law that makes them buy private insurance for an average cost of $15,000 per year, even if they make $50K or less! Think he might be getting some campaign contributions from insurance companies?

As for the auto insurance comparison- first of all, it's only required if you own a car. Little old ladies, some college students, and some urban professionals find car ownership unnecessary. You think we should tell granny in the nursing home "Buy auto insurance or go to jail?" Of course not.

Secondly, only auto LIABILITY insurance is required. That is you have to insure yourself against harming others. Health insurance is not the same type of product as auto insurance.

Back to taxes- as much as we dislike them, they are paid to government agencies and they theoretically provide services for all citizens.

Compulsory health insurance to a private provider for personal gain is not even close to income tax.

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rtrue
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Post subject: Re: So, what are you in for?
Posted: 06 Nov 2009 19:55 pm

beerster wrote



Let's pretend you don't have insurance, OK? Then you do something a little stupid like jaywalk across the street at night, and you get run over by a hit and run driver. Somebody calls the cops, and they come to where you're laying unconscious. What should they do with you? What if it's one of your 3 kids laying on the street?


Write a check and pay the doctor bill.

Write a check and pay the hospital bill.

Or make payments to the doctor and hospital.

That is, if you have the money. If you don't have enough money saved, you should probably buy insurance.

The point is, it should be a matter of choice as to whether a person chooses to buy insurance.

95% of people would probably buy it. But does that mean we criminalize the 5% who choose not to?

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