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Why exactly do leftist have a problem with any expectations
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RichieRichInStLouis
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Post subject: Re: Why exactly do leftist have a problem with any expectati
Posted: 07 Nov 2009 08:57 am

FatRider wrote

RichieRichInStLouis wrote

Of reform within Islam? Do you support or condone their second class treatment of women, intolerance of different belief systems, their violent intolerance of 'alternative lifestyles', their expectations in fundamentalist countries that nonbelievers should submit to second class citizenship, honor killings, the significant portion of believers who support or condone terrorist actions?

I'm not saying Christians/Catholics/Jews/etc. are without fault and all Muslims are evil. However, it is rather insulting that leftists have certain expectations for non-Muslims and lower ones for Muslims? Same issue with African-Americans. It's like you expect so little that you are willing to condone or excuse bad behavior among some groups, but not others. In a sense, you are being bigotted. You are saying without saying, that we know you can't help it to be less 'enlightened'. Which is very insulting...


You can accept without condoning. As in, I can accept that they can live how they want in thier own country. If it is happening in this country then it is unacceptable since we have laws against these things. If it is in thier own country then we really have no buisness butting in. After all, how would we feel if some folks over in the middle east started telling us that we need to act like them? Personally I dont make much distiction between Islam and Christianity anyway.


So, as long as you have yours, freedom, you are bravely going to keep quiet and never denounce others for not permitting the same? Typical... Hold your family and friends to a high standard and expect NOTHING of your neighbors or strangers...

The minute that a significant segment of their religion advocates/condones/accepts terrorist actions is the minute that I hold them and countries that push that are ruled under that religion to some sort of standard. Stop tolerating/condoning terorist actions and we will not criticize so much. By this mindset we should have completely ignored the Holocaust, the purges in the old Soviet Union and Maoist China...
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Wayland
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Post subject: Re: Why exactly do leftist have a problem with any expectations
Posted: 07 Nov 2009 09:17 am
Mr Rich:

What's the issue?

In the 'art' of diplomacy when to pull the trigger on differences is a constant decision. It's just like two people getting along.

You'd push a little harder, you're further right of center than most. You'd be a little harder to get along with. OK.

Folks who are left of YOU are not "leftist", evil, or ignorant.
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gulfcoastblues
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Post subject: Re: Why exactly do leftist have a problem with any expectati
Posted: 07 Nov 2009 09:27 am

Jerkherky wrote

gulfcoastblues wrote

RichieRichInStLouis wrote

Of reform within Islam? Do you support or condone their second class treatment of women, intolerance of different belief systems, their violent intolerance of 'alternative lifestyles', their expectations in fundamentalist countries that nonbelievers should submit to second class citizenship, honor killings, the significant portion of believers who support or condone terrorist actions?

I'm not saying Christians/Catholics/Jews/etc. are without fault and all Muslims are evil. However, it is rather insulting that leftists have certain expectations for non-Muslims and lower ones for Muslims? Same issue with African-Americans. It's like you expect so little that you are willing to condone or excuse bad behavior among some groups, but not others. In a sense, you are being bigotted. You are saying without saying, that we know you can't help it to be less 'enlightened'. Which is very insulting...


My only guess is that they support radical Islam for the same reason they idolize Marxism and Maoism.

They all are diametrically opposed to traditional American Christian values, individual liberty and free market capitalism. All the ingredients that made this country great.


Everything just fits in a box with you doesn't it. No one defends the actions of radical terrorists. Trying to understand something is not the same as justifying or supporting. Ever heard the saying "walk a mile in my shoes."


I see. You feel empathy towards them.

Got it. Evil or Very Mad
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Ranger1
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Post subject: Re: Why exactly do leftist have a problem with any expectati
Posted: 07 Nov 2009 09:30 am

RichieRichInStLouis wrote

Of reform within Islam? Do you support or condone their second class treatment of women, intolerance of different belief systems, their violent intolerance of 'alternative lifestyles', their expectations in fundamentalist countries that nonbelievers should submit to second class citizenship, honor killings, the significant portion of believers who support or condone terrorist actions?

I'm not saying Christians/Catholics/Jews/etc. are without fault and all Muslims are evil. However, it is rather insulting that leftists have certain expectations for non-Muslims and lower ones for Muslims? Same issue with African-Americans. It's like you expect so little that you are willing to condone or excuse bad behavior among some groups, but not others. In a sense, you are being bigotted. You are saying without saying, that we know you can't help it to be less 'enlightened'. Which is very insulting...



Before I can give you a well thought out answer I'd need to know, to start at least, why the right are so horribly terrified of change.
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fastballs
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Post subject: Re: Why exactly do leftist have a problem with any expectations
Posted: 07 Nov 2009 09:31 am
I wish all religions would "reform" themselves out of existence.

It's another conservative myth that the left loves Islam. It's got more to do with the fact that people on the left recognize that if they let the conservatives in this country go they way they'd like, all Muslims would be in concentration camps right now. It's about providing balance.
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Ranger1
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Post subject: Re: Why exactly do leftist have a problem with any expectations
Posted: 07 Nov 2009 09:35 am
I believe that if the right had their way, they'd implement 'the Final Solution' upon Islam.
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CardsRed
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Post subject: Re: Why exactly do leftist have a problem with any expectations
Posted: 07 Nov 2009 09:35 am
Again with the "plank in your own eye".
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fastballs
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Post subject: Re: Why exactly do leftist have a problem with any expectations
Posted: 07 Nov 2009 09:36 am

Ranger1 wrote

I believe that if the right had their way, they'd implement 'the Final Solution' upon Islam.


I agree. They'd do it for "Jesus."
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FatRider
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Post subject: Re: Why exactly do leftist have a problem with any expectati
Posted: 07 Nov 2009 10:08 am

RichieRichInStLouis wrote

FatRider wrote

RichieRichInStLouis wrote

Of reform within Islam? Do you support or condone their second class treatment of women, intolerance of different belief systems, their violent intolerance of 'alternative lifestyles', their expectations in fundamentalist countries that nonbelievers should submit to second class citizenship, honor killings, the significant portion of believers who support or condone terrorist actions?

I'm not saying Christians/Catholics/Jews/etc. are without fault and all Muslims are evil. However, it is rather insulting that leftists have certain expectations for non-Muslims and lower ones for Muslims? Same issue with African-Americans. It's like you expect so little that you are willing to condone or excuse bad behavior among some groups, but not others. In a sense, you are being bigotted. You are saying without saying, that we know you can't help it to be less 'enlightened'. Which is very insulting...


You can accept without condoning. As in, I can accept that they can live how they want in thier own country. If it is happening in this country then it is unacceptable since we have laws against these things. If it is in thier own country then we really have no buisness butting in. After all, how would we feel if some folks over in the middle east started telling us that we need to act like them? Personally I dont make much distiction between Islam and Christianity anyway.


So, as long as you have yours, freedom, you are bravely going to keep quiet and never denounce others for not permitting the same? Typical... Hold your family and friends to a high standard and expect NOTHING of your neighbors or strangers...

The minute that a significant segment of their religion advocates/condones/accepts terrorist actions is the minute that I hold them and countries that push that are ruled under that religion to some sort of standard. Stop tolerating/condoning terorist actions and we will not criticize so much. By this mindset we should have completely ignored the Holocaust, the purges in the old Soviet Union and Maoist China...


Not what I said at all. The only thing typical is the blathering that comes fromt the right these days. Rolling Eyes
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RichieRichInStLouis
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Post subject: Re: Why exactly do leftist have a problem with any expectations
Posted: 07 Nov 2009 12:44 pm

fastballs wrote

I wish all religions would "reform" themselves out of existence.

It's another conservative myth that the left loves Islam. It's got more to do with the fact that people on the left recognize that if they let the conservatives in this country go they way they'd like, all Muslims would be in concentration camps right now. It's about providing balance.


That's it we secretly want all who are different be in concentration camps. You got it Rolling Eyes

Now why is it that the left believes that they are the only enlightened, reasoned ones?

From what I see this is how the left views people:

Minorities, especially blacks, as incapable of behaving civilized in many cases. We here the old line when there is gang violence or higher crime about the legacy of slavery/discrimination/underprivileged as if they are another specie of human beings that are incapable of 'civilized' behavior. Same thing with Muslims in many countries.

Most conservatives simply feel that people should be dealt with the same. i.e., we shouldn't talk down to, lower our expectations of people based on their color or creed.

Like what Bush said: the bigotry of low expectations...

What I am driving at is this: you don't criminalize Islam or intern all Muslims, etc.

HOWEVER, you don't put your head in the sand and act as if there is not a problem with fundamentalist Islam.

However, feel free to ignore any sort of suggestion of accountability for anyone (unless they are WASPs) and pretend like conservatives are looking for is to kill or round up all "Arabs". That's the intelligent to engage others who don't agree with you...

Let's see if I got the list straight:

Conservatives:

1) Want to round up or kill anyone who has a "Muslim-sounding" name, especially if they are foreigners?

2) Secretly oppose Obama's policies not on merit, but because they are closet racists?

3) Only oppose illegal immigration because we hate all hispanics?

4) Want to start wars in every continent of the world?

Am I missing something? I mean as long as we are going to stereotype us conservatives, might as well make the list complete...
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Ranger1
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Post subject: Re: Why exactly do leftist have a problem with any expectati
Posted: 07 Nov 2009 12:51 pm

RichieRichInStLouis wrote

FatRider wrote

RichieRichInStLouis wrote

Of reform within Islam? Do you support or condone their second class treatment of women, intolerance of different belief systems, their violent intolerance of 'alternative lifestyles', their expectations in fundamentalist countries that nonbelievers should submit to second class citizenship, honor killings, the significant portion of believers who support or condone terrorist actions?

I'm not saying Christians/Catholics/Jews/etc. are without fault and all Muslims are evil. However, it is rather insulting that leftists have certain expectations for non-Muslims and lower ones for Muslims? Same issue with African-Americans. It's like you expect so little that you are willing to condone or excuse bad behavior among some groups, but not others. In a sense, you are being bigotted. You are saying without saying, that we know you can't help it to be less 'enlightened'. Which is very insulting...


You can accept without condoning. As in, I can accept that they can live how they want in thier own country. If it is happening in this country then it is unacceptable since we have laws against these things. If it is in thier own country then we really have no buisness butting in. After all, how would we feel if some folks over in the middle east started telling us that we need to act like them? Personally I dont make much distiction between Islam and Christianity anyway.


So, as long as you have yours, freedom, you are bravely going to keep quiet and never denounce others for not permitting the same? Typical... Hold your family and friends to a high standard and expect NOTHING of your neighbors or strangers...That's why this country USED to be called a 'FREE' country. Sure I may not like how my neighbors bahave or live but as long as they don't directly interfer with my life that's their business. People who disagree, demand exacting standards for all are usually called communists.The minute that a significant segment of their religion advocates/condones/accepts terrorist actions is the minute that I hold them and countries that push that are ruled under that religion to some sort of standard. Stop tolerating/condoning terorist actions and we will not criticize so much. By this mindset we should have completely ignored the Holocaust, the purges in the old Soviet Union and Maoist China...
And now there are people here who want to purge this country, made up of 'poor and huddled masses' of those pesky brown people from south of the border and any religion like Islam and Hindu because they are 'different'. If you don't want those Muslims taking over your country you and your friends better start making lots and lots of babies now.
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RichieRichInStLouis
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Post subject: Re: Why exactly do leftist have a problem with any expectations
Posted: 07 Nov 2009 13:12 pm

fastballs wrote

Ranger1 wrote

I believe that if the right had their way, they'd implement 'the Final Solution' upon Islam.


I agree. They'd do it for "Jesus."


Yeah, you are right, after all, we have talked a lot about a "caliphate" like many in Islam have. Rolling Eyes
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