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One Question: How Do We Pay For It?
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PennRamsFan
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Post subject: Re: One Question: How Do We Pay For It?
Posted: 09 Nov 2009 06:14 am

Ranger1 wrote

PennRamsFan wrote

Ranger1 wrote



It'll be funded the same way Bush's 3 wars were funded. BORROW beyond the ability to pay it back. DUH! Because of this the right wing partisan hacks have zero room to complain about the left wing partisan hacks. However, us 'normal' and sane people stuck in between each pile of rotting, decomposing whaledreck who'll pay the most. Evil or Very Mad


Spot on. The current group of liars in power from Obama all the way down to your state representative need to all go. Its obvious that there aren't people in the Oval office, Senate, or House that have a clue regarding economics. And it has been getting worse with each new president and congress. You'd think that none of these people have ever owned a credit card. Geesh.


Unlike you, I'm willing to give Obama more time to prove himself. We gave Bush 8 years and got screwed every year. Obama has been in office only 10 months, and not one single American passenger jet has yet to be deliberately crashed into any American building. The main problem is not the WH; not Congress but the poltical system and the general public. The 2 parties are using the country to play a power game and we are the pawns, the expendable game pieces. Sadly, many, far too many are blind and/or too stupid to realize this. Most of the Congresscritters have been in office many years. If they are so bad, so incompetent how is it that they keep getting re-elected? Who re-elects them? Says a lot about the intelligence or lack thereof of the American people.


Thats fine that you want to give Obama more time but you have to ask yourself this question, how is he any difference from GWB at this point? Fiscally, he has continued the policy of throwing money at money to solve problems which has proven itself time and again to not be the way to truely fix anything. Look at both the TARP funds and auto bailouts. Many of the banks receiving TARP funds didn't need them but the administration was giving out free money with no stipulations so they took it. Once they got around to attaching some strings, they paid it back. Its not as if the banks who gave back the money were doing so because they were suddenly solvent, they never had problems in the first place. And the CBO has already said that we, the taxpayer, will more than likely not see a single penny back that was loaned to the automakers. As for the ongoing wars, no change in policy there. Gitmo continues to operate. Call me crazy but other than this health care bill, which is horribly ill advised in terms of timing, there has been ZERO change. Its business as usual. No bi-partisanship that we were promised. If anything has changed, its that there is no longer any bi-partisanship at all. This WH and Congress has killed any notion of it that was still out there. You can give him more time if you want but I hate to tell you that you are just kidding yourself if you think that Obama is going to suddenly wake up and start to make good on his promises. And one last thing, I hope that you really don't believe that 9/11 happened because GWB was in office. That was a long time coming and would have happened had it been GWB or Gore in office.
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Rumblefish
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Post subject: Re: One Question: How Do We Pay For It?
Posted: 09 Nov 2009 06:57 am

Quote

Thats fine that you want to give Obama more time but you have to ask yourself this question, how is he any difference from GWB at this point? Fiscally, he has continued the policy of throwing money at money to solve problems which has proven itself time and again to not be the way to truely fix anything. Look at both the TARP funds and auto bailouts. Many of the banks receiving TARP funds didn't need them but the administration was giving out free money with no stipulations so they took it. Once they got around to attaching some strings, they paid it back. Its not as if the banks who gave back the money were doing so because they were suddenly solvent, they never had problems in the first place


So the collapse of Bear and Lehman and the resulting lock up of the credit markets that pushed the economy deeper into recession, drove jobless rates higher, and exacerbated a real estate collapse was all what? Imaginary or a conspiracy?

So, in your world, measureables like GDP, stock markets, and job numbers be BETTER today by doing nothing than by what was done?

It may well be that TARP and the auto bailouts were blunt uses of government fiscal policy rather than surgical strikes.

But, given that GDP has rebounded, that the stock market isn't sinking like a stone, and the real estate markets aren't in free fall anymore, I think it's a bit like criticizing Capt. Sullenberger for doing this instead of that. I guarantee that there was *somebody* who griped about how the landing happened or - even post landing - about the rescue out of the river.

And so it goes with "fiscal conservatives." If they'd had their way, we'd STILL be debating the who, what, and how much (if any) would be spent/loaned here or there.

Instead, we're on our way to a recovery. Oh, to be sure, it's early on and things like jobless numbers are concerning and there's the specter of inflation to worry about (though, not currently).

But, given the alternative . . . I'll take these concerns and worries every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Rumblefish
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LIttleOne
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Post subject: Re: One Question: How Do We Pay For It?
Posted: 09 Nov 2009 07:06 am
I just LOVE all the deflection and re-direction on the part of you lusty liberals.............

Correct me if I am wrong, GWB is no longer POTUS and the Democratic Party has control of the House and Senate, right? So why is the past now an issue? Let's talk about what is being presented HERE and NOW!

Take ownership of your plan and DEFEND it with logical and concise numbers. Is that too much to ask?

You STILL have not answered the question. How are we supposed to pay for this w/o HUGE cuts to Medicare and the states picking up the tab?
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acidbill
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Post subject: Re: One Question: How Do We Pay For It?
Posted: 09 Nov 2009 07:15 am

LIttleOne wrote

My own physician has stated that he sees a number of Medicare patients. The reimbursement rates provided by the state/fed is barely enough to meet his expenses. With student loans to pay back, and other overhead like office staff, machines and so on, just how can a physician stay in business?


Last time I looked, doctors were the 2nd highest paid profession in the US behind lawyers. The idea that doctors will be hurt by whatever bill gets passed is nothing but hype. They will still make plenty of money. Besides, the purpose of the bill is not to insure that doctors can still be rich, the purpose is to insure Americans.

I should add that every doctor I know loves Medicare. They'd actually rather deal with Medicare than private insurance companies, because it's more efficient, accountable, and the bill is more likely to be paid. Medicare isn't in the business of denying claims like private insurance.
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Philly5
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Post subject: Re: One Question: How Do We Pay For It?
Posted: 09 Nov 2009 07:29 am
At just 220 - 215 in the House it is very unlikely we will have to worry about paying for this bill. Not happening in the Senate.

The Dems will slip in all kinds of tax increases to help pay for whatever does pass. Maybe they will call them 'fees' or something creative. We also have 10 years of collectin to pay for the first 7 years of the plan. Let somebody else worry about the mess down the road. Ultimately our kids and grandkids will pay for it so we got nothing to worry about. Rolling Eyes
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tarawa
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Post subject: Re: One Question: How Do We Pay For It?
Posted: 09 Nov 2009 07:32 am

LIttleOne wrote

I just LOVE all the deflection and re-direction on the part of you lusty liberals.............

Correct me if I am wrong, GWB is no longer POTUS and the Democratic Party has control of the House and Senate, right?
Since 2006 and not one of them has had the guts to cut the funding for the war that all these whack jobs on the forum call for.

So why is the past now an issue? Let's talk about what is being presented HERE and NOW!

Take ownership of your plan and DEFEND it with logical and concise numbers. Is that too much to ask?
Look around . . . yes, it is a LOT to ask.

You STILL have not answered the question. How are we supposed to pay for this w/o HUGE cuts to Medicare and the states picking up the tab?


Barack Huessein Obama.
Mmmm, mmmm, mmmm!
_________________
"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it." - Mark Twain
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PennRamsFan
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Post subject: Re: One Question: How Do We Pay For It?
Posted: 09 Nov 2009 07:49 am

Rumblefish wrote

Quote

Thats fine that you want to give Obama more time but you have to ask yourself this question, how is he any difference from GWB at this point? Fiscally, he has continued the policy of throwing money at money to solve problems which has proven itself time and again to not be the way to truely fix anything. Look at both the TARP funds and auto bailouts. Many of the banks receiving TARP funds didn't need them but the administration was giving out free money with no stipulations so they took it. Once they got around to attaching some strings, they paid it back. Its not as if the banks who gave back the money were doing so because they were suddenly solvent, they never had problems in the first place


So the collapse of Bear and Lehman and the resulting lock up of the credit markets that pushed the economy deeper into recession, drove jobless rates higher, and exacerbated a real estate collapse was all what? Imaginary or a conspiracy?

So, in your world, measureables like GDP, stock markets, and job numbers be BETTER today by doing nothing than by what was done?

It may well be that TARP and the auto bailouts were blunt uses of government fiscal policy rather than surgical strikes.

But, given that GDP has rebounded, that the stock market isn't sinking like a stone, and the real estate markets aren't in free fall anymore, I think it's a bit like criticizing Capt. Sullenberger for doing this instead of that. I guarantee that there was *somebody* who griped about how the landing happened or - even post landing - about the rescue out of the river.

And so it goes with "fiscal conservatives." If they'd had their way, we'd STILL be debating the who, what, and how much (if any) would be spent/loaned here or there.

Instead, we're on our way to a recovery. Oh, to be sure, it's early on and things like jobless numbers are concerning and there's the specter of inflation to worry about (though, not currently).

But, given the alternative . . . I'll take these concerns and worries every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Rumblefish


True economic recovery can not be gained solely by goverment spending. If it happens now, it will be the first time in recorded history that it has happened. Half the projected 3rd qtr GDP increase is due to cash for clunkers. Thats artifical growth to make you feel good, and apparently it worked. Yes, the stock markets are up but if you talk to your financial advisor, you shouldn't be reading anything into this. This is no reason for stocks to be up. Unemployment continues to get worse and productivity is up simply because companies are producing the same with less workers. As for the housing market, if you think the crisis is over, wait until next year. Its still in free fall.

Recovery won't begin until Obama realizes that we need to offer incentives to businesses so that they will begin to hire workers back and look to growth. One only needs to look back to the Depression as an example of how goverment interference isn't the way out of a Depression. Had FDR's policies not been put into place, the Depression would have been shortened by as much as 7 years. You can ignore history if you want but its not advisable. Its funny, I keep reading on here how things are getting better yet I have not talked to a single person in real life who thinks things are getting better. I also have not seen a group of indicators showing that things are getting better.
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JAK
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Post subject: Re: One Question: How Do We Pay For It?
Posted: 09 Nov 2009 08:17 am
The Republicans led by Cheney and Bush borrowed money to fund a war to conrol oil prices and kill 100,000 civillians in Iraq.

The Democrats want to borrow money to provide health care to Americans.

I see a real difference here.
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boonedoggle
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Post subject: Re: One Question: How Do We Pay For It?
Posted: 09 Nov 2009 08:20 am

Quote

The Republicans led by Cheney and Bush borrowed money to fund a war to conrol oil prices and kill 100,000 civillians in Iraq.

The Democrats want to borrow money to provide health care to Americans.

I see a real difference here
.

If Halliburton and KBR were healthcare providers the Republican's would probably be strong supporters of the plan!
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Philly5
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Post subject: Re: One Question: How Do We Pay For It?
Posted: 09 Nov 2009 08:29 am

JAK wrote

The Republicans led by Cheney and Bush borrowed money to fund a war to conrol oil prices and kill 100,000 civillians in Iraq.

The Democrats want to borrow money to provide health care to Americans.

I see a real difference here.


I seem to remember bipartisan support for the wars and overwhelming support of US citizens?

I seem to remember a little better economy and much smaller deficit? Increasing taxes now to pay for health care in 2013 will kill the economy and especially small business.

Still paying for wars. The economy has tanked. Unemployment is awful. The stimulus added to the deficit. On top of all that you want to add health care? That is irresponsible.

Irresponsible and Inept. That is Obama.
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JAK
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Post subject: Re: One Question: How Do We Pay For It?
Posted: 09 Nov 2009 08:36 am

Philly5 wrote

JAK wrote

The Republicans led by Cheney and Bush borrowed money to fund a war to conrol oil prices and kill 100,000 civillians in Iraq.

The Democrats want to borrow money to provide health care to Americans.

I see a real difference here.


I seem to remember bipartisan support for the wars and overwhelming support of US citizens?

I seem to remember a little better economy and much smaller deficit? Increasing taxes now to pay for health care in 2013 will kill the economy and especially small business.

Still paying for wars. The economy has tanked. Unemployment is awful. The stimulus added to the deficit. On top of all that you want to add health care? That is irresponsible.

Irresponsible and Inept. That is Obama.


We will pay for the healthcare one way or the other - the bills for a broken system that is in place will come due as thousands go without preventinve and maintenance healthcare. The H1N1 outbreak is just the beginning. Think Europe in the Dark Ages - when only the rich could afford to stay in their castles free of the plague. I'm not a doomesday type of guy, but the system in place is a rich person's deal only, and the middle class (what's left of us) is being squeezed to pay for everything.

The bipartisan support you saw for the wars was based on cherry-picked data they were spoon-fed. The fact that Congress authorized the use of force in Iraq didn't require Bush to do so in the way he did - mishandling every aspect of the war from start to "Mission Accomplished, to Bring 'em on! contuning forever.

The Bush-Cheney economy was a sham. It was based on hot air, uncontrolled credit and opportunity for the Ken Lays and Bernie Madoffs of the world - and it tanked under Bush's regime - people can try to pin it on Obama, but Bush fed the bailouts to his friends, paid the billions to KBR and Haliburton and Blackwater, while Cheney sneers and accuses Obama of being afraid.
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cassava
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Post subject: Re: One Question: How Do We Pay For It?
Posted: 09 Nov 2009 08:39 am

doa70 wrote

That's why I'm letting the CBO do my talking for me. Smile


Anyone who believes those CBO numbers are even close to reality should take a good long look at the decades of history with the other health care programs our Government has run.
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