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Bernie: Jose Canseco almost "Curt Flood?"
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Starbuck
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Post subject: Bernie: Jose Canseco almost "Curt Flood?"
Posted: 03 Nov 2009 08:58 am
You could argue whether he is a scoundrel, or some accidental hero, but as I was listening to Canseco being interviewed yesterday, this one question came to mind:

--- Has any former player, except for maybe Curt Flood, impacted and influenced baseball player's lives more than Canseco?

Think about Mark McGwire, implications for many players that might not ever be in the HOF, records keeping, Roger Clemens, the congressional hearings, other career paths after baseball, etc.

--- Take Canseco completely out of the picture and how many player's lives might be different today?

Canseco himself thinks that at one time as many as 80% of all MLB players were using PED's, however he estimates today it's probably under 2%. Because of him? Could be. Is he a hero? Maybe not, but he sure did make his mark on this sport.

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Quiet Goes the Don
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Post subject: Re: Bernie: Jose Canseco almost "Curt Flood?"
Posted: 03 Nov 2009 10:14 am
Causation tends not to work this way, though it's an interesting premise.

I have no doubt that Jose ends up as one of the most influential players of his generation, both on and off the field. That said, the nature of secrets is that they get out. If it had not been Canseco, there would have been someone else that came along, who had the financial (or attention whore) incentives to have gone public with all this.

What Canseco seems to have known is the degree to which people were doping, especially the game's elite players.

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Starbuck
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Post subject: Re: Bernie: Jose Canseco almost "Curt Flood?"
Posted: 03 Nov 2009 10:16 am

Quiet Goes the Don wrote

Causation tends not to work this way, though it's an interesting premise.

I have no doubt that Jose ends up as one of the most influential players of his generation, both on and off the field. That said, the nature of secrets is that they get out. If it had not been Canseco, there would have been someone else that came along, who had the financial (or attention whore) incentives to have gone public with all this.

What Canseco seems to have known is the degree to which people were doping, especially the game's elite players.


Probably right on the money.

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BarnBurner
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Post subject: Re: Bernie: Jose Canseco almost "Curt Flood?"
Posted: 03 Nov 2009 11:35 am
While he is turning into one of the most significant players in baseball's history - it should be remembered, that it was an accidental happening in pursuit of padding his bank account.
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makeham98
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Post subject: Re: Bernie: Jose Canseco almost "Curt Flood?"
Posted: 03 Nov 2009 12:28 pm
Curt Flood had something to lose.
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kjoe
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Post subject: Re: Bernie: Jose Canseco almost "Curt Flood?"
Posted: 03 Nov 2009 12:44 pm

makeham98 wrote

Curt Flood had something to lose.



+++++++++++

I heard him on 590 yesterday---ordinary callers, who did not know any better than ask some pretty decent questions, turned him into an incoherent idiot.

His math that 80 percent of the players were doing steroids in 2001, and it was down to almost zero in 2005, there fore there was an 80 percent chance that Albert was doing them ignored the record of consistency Albert has established in the so called "80 percent years" and the 2 percent years.

I caught him mixed up between 1992, and 1994 on one question---he should remember the guy who was arrested in July of 1992 if remembers nothing else.

He was busy informing us that everything was legal in the 80's and 90's.

I think the times he claims he injected McGwire, (my personal guess is yes, in 1992) have made him some sort of a God to many---an incontrovertible expert witness, who tells the whole truth.

Bullsheet.

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dodds2
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Post subject: Re: Bernie: Jose Canseco almost "Curt Flood?"
Posted: 03 Nov 2009 15:36 pm
The sad thing about Curt Flood is that what he did really didn't have much effect on the player's winning their freedom, that was already in the works through the process that Marvin Miller set forward through labor negotiations. At that time, the commissioner handled all grievances between player and team, and Miller gently threatened to flood (no pun intended) Bowie Kuhn with dozens of grievances; Kuhn then agreed that an arbitrator (independant) should handle grievances. This is how the union got Hunter free-agency and also Messersmith when he played out his option year. Marvin Miller should be in the hall of fame. Flood just didn't want to play in Philadelphia, that had more to do with the suit than a sacrifice to benefit all players in the future.
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taxfree
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Post subject: Re: Bernie: Jose Canseco almost "Curt Flood?"
Posted: 03 Nov 2009 17:57 pm
It's nice to know someone that knew Curt Flood back in those days. I didn't realize that all Curt was doing was watching out for himself.
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Drexl
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Post subject: Re: Bernie: Jose Canseco almost "Curt Flood?"
Posted: 03 Nov 2009 18:11 pm
Canseco is the bizarro Curt Flood. Smile
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Starbuck
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Post subject: Re: Bernie: Jose Canseco almost "Curt Flood?"
Posted: 03 Nov 2009 19:40 pm

dodds2 wrote

The sad thing about Curt Flood is that what he did really didn't have much effect on the player's winning their freedom, that was already in the works through the process that Marvin Miller set forward through labor negotiations. At that time, the commissioner handled all grievances between player and team, and Miller gently threatened to flood (no pun intended) Bowie Kuhn with dozens of grievances; Kuhn then agreed that an arbitrator (independant) should handle grievances. This is how the union got Hunter free-agency and also Messersmith when he played out his option year. Marvin Miller should be in the hall of fame. Flood just didn't want to play in Philadelphia, that had more to do with the suit than a sacrifice to benefit all players in the future.


Interesting stuff.

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Starbuck
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Post subject: Re: Bernie: Jose Canseco almost "Curt Flood?"
Posted: 03 Nov 2009 19:42 pm

BarnBurner wrote

While he is turning into one of the most significant players in baseball's history - it should be remembered, that it was an accidental happening in pursuit of padding his bank account.


Oh, I agree, but it definitely had impact even if not in exactly the way he intended. It was interesting that he said on the interview yesterday that he regrets the whole thing. He said he never dreamed it would have as much impact as it did.

A few things about Jose:

Some players describe him as a jerk. He might well be.
But he was the one guy that told mostly the truth.
Oddly enough he has some credibility.

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Last edited by Starbuck on 03 Nov 2009 20:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Captain Spaulding
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Post subject: Re: Bernie: Jose Canseco almost "Curt Flood?"
Posted: 03 Nov 2009 19:52 pm
My question is that if Canseco had been "allowed" to get homer number 500, would he still have outed anyone?
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