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Cardinals: not a september team?
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rebel61
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Post subject: Cardinals: not a september team?
Posted: 03 Nov 2009 16:59 pm
I think I've noticed an analogy:

Astros is to April as is Cardinals is to September.

I think the last time the Cards had a good september is when they went 21-5 in 2002. After that, they don't really play in september. In most cases they're too far ahead for september to matter, or they're out of it already. In 2006 it really cut it close. Usually sometime in the 10th to 15th of september, they will be cruising along, then they get swept (what happened this year) and all of the sudden they're sloppy.

Usually they turn it around as soon as Game 1 of the NLDS, but this year they carried it through getting swept out of the NLDS. I didn't think much of it until this year.

How do teams usually turn something like this around? I think they gotta keep some kind of momentum going into the playoffs.

What do you think.
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The General
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Post subject: Re: Cardinals: not a september team?
Posted: 03 Nov 2009 17:43 pm
I think October (and now November) is what counts and the Cardinals have done a reasonably good job then.
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rebel61
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Post subject: Re: Cardinals: not a september team?
Posted: 03 Nov 2009 17:53 pm
ya but this year it carried into october
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TheBeatles
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Post subject: Re: Cardinals: not a september team?
Posted: 03 Nov 2009 17:54 pm

The General wrote

I think October (and now November) is what counts and the Cardinals have done a reasonably good job then.


that's where the term 'reasonablt good job" is very subjective. While i don't blame you for having that opinion... I take the othe stance, and conclude that the Cardinals have been an abject failure in October since 1996.

1996 - no pennant
2000 - no pennant
2001 - first round loss
2002 - no pennant
2004 - pennant
2005 - no pennant
2006 - Word Series
2009 - First round loss

To me, it's simliar to reading a football teams offensive drives and seeing
1st drive - punt
2nd drive - punt
3rd drive - fumble
4th drive - punt
5th drive - field goal
6th drive - punt
7th drive - touchdown
8th drive - interception

That's 10 out of a possible 56 points... not good at all.
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rebel61
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Post subject: Re: Cardinals: not a september team?
Posted: 03 Nov 2009 18:01 pm
sothey need to find a better way of getting momentum in september and carrying it into the postseason.

How do teams usually go about changing these kinda habits?
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The General
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Post subject: Re: Cardinals: not a september team?
Posted: 03 Nov 2009 18:02 pm

TheBeatles wrote

The General wrote

I think October (and now November) is what counts and the Cardinals have done a reasonably good job then.


that's where the term 'reasonablt good job" is very subjective. While i don't blame you for having that opinion... I take the othe stance, and conclude that the Cardinals have been an abject failure in October since 1996.

1996 - no pennant
2000 - no pennant
2001 - first round loss
2002 - no pennant
2004 - pennant
2005 - no pennant
2006 - Word Series
2009 - First round loss

To me, it's simliar to reading a football teams offensive drives and seeing
1st drive - punt
2nd drive - punt
3rd drive - fumble
4th drive - punt
5th drive - field goal
6th drive - punt
7th drive - touchdown
8th drive - interception

That's 10 out of a possible 56 points... not good at all.


I was talking about this:

New York Yankees AL 26
St. Louis Cardinals NL 10
Boston Red Sox AL 7
New York Giants NL 5
Philadelphia Athletics AL 5
Pittsburgh Pirates NL 5
Los Angeles Dodgers NL 5
Cincinnati Reds NL 5
Detroit Tigers AL 4
Oakland Athletics AL 4
Baltimore Orioles AL 3
Chicago White Sox AL 3
Chicago Cubs NL 2
Cleveland Indians AL 2
Florida Marlins NL 2
Minnesota Twins AL 2
New York Mets NL 2
Philadelphia Phillies NL 2
Toronto Blue Jays AL 2
Anaheim Angels AL 1
Arizona Diamondbacks NL 1
Atlanta Braves NL 1
Boston Braves NL 1
Brooklyn Dodgers NL 1
Milwaukee Braves NL 1
Kansas City Royals AL 1
Washington Senators AL 1
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TheBeatles
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Post subject: Re: Cardinals: not a september team?
Posted: 03 Nov 2009 22:28 pm

The General wrote

TheBeatles wrote

The General wrote

I think October (and now November) is what counts and the Cardinals have done a reasonably good job then.


that's where the term 'reasonablt good job" is very subjective. While i don't blame you for having that opinion... I take the othe stance, and conclude that the Cardinals have been an abject failure in October since 1996.

1996 - no pennant
2000 - no pennant
2001 - first round loss
2002 - no pennant
2004 - pennant
2005 - no pennant
2006 - Word Series
2009 - First round loss

To me, it's simliar to reading a football teams offensive drives and seeing
1st drive - punt
2nd drive - punt
3rd drive - fumble
4th drive - punt
5th drive - field goal
6th drive - punt
7th drive - touchdown
8th drive - interception

That's 10 out of a possible 56 points... not good at all.


I was talking about this:

New York Yankees AL 26
St. Louis Cardinals NL 10
Boston Red Sox AL 7
New York Giants NL 5
Philadelphia Athletics AL 5
Pittsburgh Pirates NL 5
Los Angeles Dodgers NL 5
Cincinnati Reds NL 5
Detroit Tigers AL 4
Oakland Athletics AL 4
Baltimore Orioles AL 3
Chicago White Sox AL 3
Chicago Cubs NL 2
Cleveland Indians AL 2
Florida Marlins NL 2
Minnesota Twins AL 2
New York Mets NL 2
Philadelphia Phillies NL 2
Toronto Blue Jays AL 2
Anaheim Angels AL 1
Arizona Diamondbacks NL 1
Atlanta Braves NL 1
Boston Braves NL 1
Brooklyn Dodgers NL 1
Milwaukee Braves NL 1
Kansas City Royals AL 1
Washington Senators AL 1


you win this round young grasshopper. Well done Shocked
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SaintLouisSportsFan
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Post subject: Re: Cardinals: not a september team?
Posted: 04 Nov 2009 00:51 am
I knew that had been a problem, but I also knew that how a team finishes in September has little bearing with what happens in October. It helps to have momentum going into the postseason, but sometimes even if you are on a roll, you're pretty much wiped out by the time the playoffs begin to where you can't do much.

We know how poorly the 2006 team played in September, but once the postseason started, it didn't matter that much. Furthermore, I seem to recall the 2001 team playing just about as good as anybody during the stretch run, and it looked like they might be the team to beat in at least the National League (if not all of baseball). That is until they lost 2 out of 3 against the Astros the final weekend of the season to settle for the wild card, and ultimately lost to Arizona in 5 games. We'll never know what would have happened if the Cards won that division and basically had home field advantage throughout the playoffs.

I'm not sure how the problem can be fixed though. Maybe a tigher race where the Cards are withi a couple games either way going into September will bring out the best of them that final month, and hopefully they play well in that spot. Other than that, I don't know what to say.
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LongBallLarry
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Post subject: Re: Cardinals: not a september team?
Posted: 04 Nov 2009 07:42 am
The 04-05 teams had the divisions pretty much wrapped up by September, so they didn't need to play well in Sept. And in October both of those teams played very, very well for at least one round of playoffs.
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