Pipe Organist
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Post subject: Next big Propositon for the St. Louis County Voters, Prop M
Posted: 03 Nov 2009 20:31 pm
Well, now the votes are being counted for the Prop N smoking ban, the next big one won't come until April. And that is the Proposition M sales tax for the train and the bus. Now the Propositon M is for St. Louis COUNTY voters only. I looked at the system map and now the #70 Grand Line now splits at Meremac. One run does like what it used to do such as taking Grand to Meremac and heading east on Meremac while the other Grand bus continues to Loughborgh. And also the #73 Carondelet bus also goes into downtown. I mentioned at the workshop to bring back the #65 Woodsmill Westport also knwon as the old Woodsmill Fee Fee line. Back when the line ran, they wrecked the line by placing useless vans on it. I have to also get to work. With the service cuts on March 30th, I either had to depend on Call-a-Ride or go into Shrewsbury from Kirkwood, then up to Clayton vis the MetroLink Blue Line, then back west on the #58. Plus there are lots of people in sheltered workshops that also needs the Prop M to pass. Remember! There ARE those who have to get to work that do not have a car. We can vote "no" and make the poor suffer, or we can vote "yes' and let those without a car get to work.
Arch Card
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Post subject: Re: Next big Propositon for the St. Louis County Voters, Prop M
Posted: 03 Nov 2009 20:35 pm
Well with what we spent for Metrolink we could have bought each poor person a car to drive to work. The Federal Reserve did a study on this and it was clear as a friggin bell.
I have a question: when Metro doesn't break even, why don't they raise fares? Why do they shut down the route or reduce service? Why not increase the price? When gas prices go up, I have to pay more. That is the way this works.
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Post subject: Re: Next big Propositon for the St. Louis County Voters, Prop M
Posted: 03 Nov 2009 21:47 pm
Arch Card wrote
Well with what we spent for Metrolink we could have bought each poor person a car to drive to work. The Federal Reserve did a study on this and it was clear as a friggin bell.
I have a question: when Metro doesn't break even, why don't they raise fares? Why do they shut down the route or reduce service? Why not increase the price? When gas prices go up, I have to pay more. That is the way this works.
Well, they did raise the fares but they cut the service in additio to raising the fares. Although that I do agree, it was pretty stupid the way they handeled it.
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Post subject: Re: Next big Propositon for the St. Louis County Voters, Prop M
Posted: 03 Nov 2009 21:51 pm
Pipe Organist wrote
Arch Card wrote
Well with what we spent for Metrolink we could have bought each poor person a car to drive to work. The Federal Reserve did a study on this and it was clear as a friggin bell.
I have a question: when Metro doesn't break even, why don't they raise fares? Why do they shut down the route or reduce service? Why not increase the price? When gas prices go up, I have to pay more. That is the way this works.
Well, they did raise the fares but they cut the service in additio to raising the fares. Although that I do agree, it was pretty stupid the way they handeled it.
So they raised fares and didn't actually wait to see the impact. That's crazy. Now why should we give that outfit more tax dollars?
I'd rather have Metro auctioned off to a private company and run the thing like a real business. That would deliver the best service to the poor and those in need of transportation.
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Fozzie
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Post subject: Re: Next big Propositon for the St. Louis County Voters, Prop M
Posted: 04 Nov 2009 00:28 am
So, with the E911 tax passing and Prop M coming up yet again, will the County sales tax rate be over 10% in some communities?
That's criminal.
wetheat
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Post subject: Re: Next big Propositon for the St. Louis County Voters, Prop M
Posted: 04 Nov 2009 12:29 pm
I couldn't care any less.
jenniferwhatis
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Post subject: Re: Next big Propositon for the St. Louis County Voters, Prop M
Posted: 04 Nov 2009 12:51 pm
No transportation agency in the world can charge enough fares to run the system solely on those fares. In addition, there is a point at which you price yourself right out of the market when you charge too much.
As far as "not waiting to see the impact": there are projections to determine ridership and costs, just as any other business. Metro knew that merely raising fares would not make up for the budget shortfall that would result with the impending loss of funding.
Bi-State Development Agency was formed when the private companies running transit in the metro area couldn't turn a profit. No transit agency runs in the black without subsidies. None. Not one.
bprop
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Post subject: Re: Next big Propositon for the St. Louis County Voters, Prop M
Posted: 04 Nov 2009 17:34 pm
Would turning MoDOT over to private enterprise help it break even (over and above gas taxes/tolls, i.e. user fees)? If so, I'm all for it.
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Post subject: Re: Next big Propositon for the St. Louis County Voters, Prop M
Posted: 04 Nov 2009 19:52 pm
jenniferwhatis wrote
No transportation agency in the world can charge enough fares to run the system solely on those fares. In addition, there is a point at which you price yourself right out of the market when you charge too much.
As far as "not waiting to see the impact": there are projections to determine ridership and costs, just as any other business. Metro knew that merely raising fares would not make up for the budget shortfall that would result with the impending loss of funding.
Bi-State Development Agency was formed when the private companies running transit in the metro area couldn't turn a profit. No transit agency runs in the black without subsidies. None. Not one.
Well the history is a bit different. STL used to have a thriving public transport system of private streetcar companies. Then they outlawed the streetcars and created Metro.
I would like to see half of Metro's territory given to a private bus company to see how it makes do, give them the pro rata share of the sales tax cash, and lets have a real live competition.
Lord knows we can't do any worse than Metro has done. They don't know what the price should be, they don't serve the most profitable customers or routes, and they are dominated by political hacks.
Lets have a old fashioned street race.
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Post subject: Re: Next big Propositon for the St. Louis County Voters, Prop M
Posted: 04 Nov 2009 19:56 pm
bprop wrote
Would turning MoDOT over to private enterprise help it break even (over and above gas taxes/tolls, i.e. user fees)? If so, I'm all for it.
Listen, Metro already gets tax subsidies. They burned right thru all that and needed extra cash and that's when the jig was up.
Any company that charges the same amount for each ride regardless of location, type of customer, or time of day is a ghost bus without a driver.
I say lets split the territory up and have a competition based on service, price, and sustainability.
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Post subject: Re: Next big Propositon for the St. Louis County Voters, Prop M
Posted: 04 Nov 2009 22:55 pm
Yes. There were three or four at least. On the Illinois side, there was at least one interurban line known as the East St. Louis and Suburban. St. Louis Public Service Company handled the bus routes in the city and they ran the St. Louis Streetcar system until 1963. In 1940, St. Louis began buying a new breed of streetcars called PCCs. And only a year later, 100 more were purchased. Although that Meto did buy good buses ever since 2000. Those buses are the Gilligs. And the 8200s that were bought in 1981 were scrapped. The 82s were the ones that had the all-plastic seats with no safety bar to grab onto. Both the public and the drivers were happy to see them go. The main complaints I have heard from the drivers that they were hard to turn.
Also the residents in U. City really didn't want MetroLink at all. Their plan to get Metro have the line be built underground was an expensive one and the Cross County Colabrative did nothing but tear up the project.
bprop
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Post subject: Re: Next big Propositon for the St. Louis County Voters, Prop M
Posted: 05 Nov 2009 07:14 am
Arch Card wrote
bprop wrote
Would turning MoDOT over to private enterprise help it break even (over and above gas taxes/tolls, i.e. user fees)? If so, I'm all for it.
Listen, Metro already gets tax subsidies. They burned right thru all that and needed extra cash and that's when the jig was up.
Any company that charges the same amount for each ride regardless of location, type of customer, or time of day is a ghost bus without a driver.
I say lets split the territory up and have a competition based on service, price, and sustainability.
And do the same with roads too, right? Because you can't have a private enterprise competing with government largesse and graft. I'd be for it. Are you aware of any cities that have experimented with such a scheme?
