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Not a Dunn deal
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imetsachelpaige
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Post subject: Not a Dunn deal
Posted: 05 Nov 2009 18:47 pm
I keep hearing his name bandied about, and God knows there are a number of threads that discuss it. But for me, it comes down to two issues.

The first is his defense. If he is placed in left (and I cannot see where else he could play, 1st base being adequately covered) he will remind us of our previous left fielder, Chris Duncan. Dunn represents a major downgrade in left field defensively-to the tune of about 25 errors a year, which, incredibly, would be an improvement for him over last season. That will kill us-and it isn't Cardinal baseball. I cannot spend another season covering my eyes on every opposition fly ball hit into left field.

The second is what the Nationals would want for him-and, and least now, it is going to be more than salary relief. The farm is depleted (I cannot see giving up another of our very limited prospects) and I think without that, they will want a Rasmus type player. As far as I am concerned, that kid is on the off-limits list along with our two pitching studs, Albert and Yadi.

If Holliday cannot be done, and Bay goes elsewhere, I say we try for a 2nd tier player that can hit .280, or go with the existing team and pick up a player as the season progresses.

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cardslesson101
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Post subject: Re: Not a Dunn deal
Posted: 05 Nov 2009 18:50 pm

imetsachelpaige wrote

I keep hearing his name bandied about, and God knows there are a number of threads that discuss it. But for me, it comes down to two issues.

The first is his defense. If he is placed in left (and I cannot see where else he could play, 1st base being adequately covered) he will remind us of our previous left fielder, Chris Duncan. Dunn represents a major downgrade in left field defensively-to the tune of about 25 errors a year, which, incredibly, would be an improvement for him over last season. That will kill us-and it isn't Cardinal baseball. I cannot spend another season covering my eyes on every opposition fly ball hit into left field.

The second is what the Nationals would want for him-and, and least now, it is going to be more than salary relief. The farm is depleted (I cannot see giving up another of our very limited prospects) and I think without that, they will want a Rasmus type player. As far as I am concerned, that kid is on the off-limits list along with our two pitching studs, Albert and Yadi.

If Holliday cannot be done, and Bay goes elsewhere, I say we try for a 2nd tier player that can hit .280, or go with the existing team and pick up a player as the season progresses.


It's time for you to jump to the Willingham band wagon. He plays better D, doesn't K as much, etc. Another guy dumped from Florida, this guy is heavily overlooked.

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Cardsfaninnashville
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Post subject: I like Willinghem, not so much Dunn.
Posted: 05 Nov 2009 19:01 pm
Dunn's defense is bad in he OF and he strikes out wayyyyyyy to much.

Willingham would be a solid addition and not a bank buster..

My preference would be Jason Bay over anyone, including Holliday. But I think Holliday goes to the Yankees (gag! hack! snort!) and Bay re-ups with Boston.

I expect DeRosa back.

I also think Glaus could come back. I know last year was a complete waste, but if he's healthy, Glaus can hit at 3rd base. Cheap contract with alot of incentives.

If Glaus is healthy, DeRo can play middle infield and Shu can go back to the outfield.

I dunno. I wish the Cards could spend money like the Yankees or Boston, it would be so much easier..

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imetsachelpaige
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Post subject: Re: Not a Dunn deal
Posted: 05 Nov 2009 19:10 pm
I concur on Willingham-a solid, under the radar player. But what would it take?
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VPJuan
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Post subject: Re: Not a Dunn deal
Posted: 05 Nov 2009 19:15 pm

imetsachelpaige wrote

I keep hearing his name bandied about, and God knows there are a number of threads that discuss it. But for me, it comes down to two issues.

The first is his defense. If he is placed in left (and I cannot see where else he could play, 1st base being adequately covered) he will remind us of our previous left fielder, Chris Duncan. Dunn represents a major downgrade in left field defensively-to the tune of about 25 errors a year, which, incredibly, would be an improvement for him over last season. That will kill us-and it isn't Cardinal baseball. I cannot spend another season covering my eyes on every opposition fly ball hit into left field.

The second is what the Nationals would want for him-and, and least now, it is going to be more than salary relief. The farm is depleted (I cannot see giving up another of our very limited prospects) and I think without that, they will want a Rasmus type player. As far as I am concerned, that kid is on the off-limits list along with our two pitching studs, Albert and Yadi.

If Holliday cannot be done, and Bay goes elsewhere, I say we try for a 2nd tier player that can hit .280, or go with the existing team and pick up a player as the season progresses.



I think we could have lived with Duncan's defense if we knew he was going to hit 40 HR's every year.

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joshh212
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Post subject: Re: Not a Dunn deal
Posted: 05 Nov 2009 19:16 pm

imetsachelpaige wrote

I concur on Willingham-a solid, under the radar player. But what would it take?

a rebuilding team like the nats will want prospects. not sure what it would take for a slightly above average guy like willingham but i definitely wouldnt give up more than a mid level guy

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cardslesson101
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Post subject: Re: Not a Dunn deal
Posted: 05 Nov 2009 19:20 pm

imetsachelpaige wrote

I concur on Willingham-a solid, under the radar player. But what would it take?


I'd say maybe a young reliever (Motte) and a young starter (Boggs). It would seem worth it to me as with Dunn it would probably take Rasmus, Craig, McLellan, and Garcia. So it may move the Cards back a little in pitching development but not by that much.

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futuregm
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Post subject: Re: Not a Dunn deal
Posted: 05 Nov 2009 19:20 pm
This team needs someone like Dunn. Power and OBP. Exactly what they need.

I'd prefer Holliday, but if they can't get him, trading for Dunn would do.

Trade for Dunn and sign Figgins to a 3 year/$30 million deal. That's $20 million and basically what Holliday wants.

3B Figgins
2B Schumaker
1B Pujols
LF Dunn
RF Ludwick
CF Rasmus
C Molina
SS Ryan
Pitcher

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Ryno1
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Post subject: Re: Not a Dunn deal
Posted: 05 Nov 2009 19:24 pm

imetsachelpaige wrote

I keep hearing his name bandied about, and God knows there are a number of threads that discuss it. But for me, it comes down to two issues.

The first is his defense. If he is placed in left (and I cannot see where else he could play, 1st base being adequately covered) he will remind us of our previous left fielder, Chris Duncan. Dunn represents a major downgrade in left field defensively-to the tune of about 25 errors a year, which, incredibly, would be an improvement for him over last season. That will kill us-and it isn't Cardinal baseball. I cannot spend another season covering my eyes on every opposition fly ball hit into left field.

The second is what the Nationals would want for him-and, and least now, it is going to be more than salary relief. The farm is depleted (I cannot see giving up another of our very limited prospects) and I think without that, they will want a Rasmus type player. As far as I am concerned, that kid is on the off-limits list along with our two pitching studs, Albert and Yadi.

If Holliday cannot be done, and Bay goes elsewhere, I say we try for a 2nd tier player that can hit .280, or go with the existing team and pick up a player as the season progresses.


Look your right Dunn is a bad fielder but did you even look at the numbers? I mean where did this come from "about 25 errors a year, which, incredibly, would be an improvement for him over last season." Last season he had 8 errors in 83 games, so 16 for the year. No need to strecth things to make him sound worse then he already is.

He isn't a good LF and strikes out too much. I don't think the Nationals will be looking for a Rasmus type for him. I also don't think the Cards will be trading for a "stud" OF. I look for them to make Holliday the best offer they can and then turn to Bay (by the way did anyone realize Dunn only struck out 10 times more the Bay this year), then like you said the second tier. Personally I'd just as soon they by pass Bay and go to Abreu

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cardslesson101
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Post subject: Re: Not a Dunn deal
Posted: 05 Nov 2009 19:25 pm

futuregm wrote

This team needs someone like Dunn. Power and OBP. Exactly what they need.

I'd prefer Holliday, but if they can't get him, trading for Dunn would do.

Trade for Dunn and sign Figgins to a 3 year/$30 million deal. That's $20 million and basically what Holliday wants.

3B Figgins
2B Schumaker
1B Pujols
LF Dunn
RF Ludwick
CF Rasmus
C Molina
SS Ryan
Pitcher


A few things: 1. I understand what your getting at but the Nats would be asking to much because teams that would loose out on Holliday/Bay would look for the next best available outfielder. 2. Figgins will probably be a Type A free agent so it would make sense only if Holliday isn't resigned so they would still have a pick. 3. Who would be our 4/5th starter? 4. So you wouldn't want DeRosa back?

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cardslesson101
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Post subject: Re: Not a Dunn deal
Posted: 05 Nov 2009 19:32 pm

Ryno1 wrote

imetsachelpaige wrote

I keep hearing his name bandied about, and God knows there are a number of threads that discuss it. But for me, it comes down to two issues.

The first is his defense. If he is placed in left (and I cannot see where else he could play, 1st base being adequately covered) he will remind us of our previous left fielder, Chris Duncan. Dunn represents a major downgrade in left field defensively-to the tune of about 25 errors a year, which, incredibly, would be an improvement for him over last season. That will kill us-and it isn't Cardinal baseball. I cannot spend another season covering my eyes on every opposition fly ball hit into left field.

The second is what the Nationals would want for him-and, and least now, it is going to be more than salary relief. The farm is depleted (I cannot see giving up another of our very limited prospects) and I think without that, they will want a Rasmus type player. As far as I am concerned, that kid is on the off-limits list along with our two pitching studs, Albert and Yadi.

If Holliday cannot be done, and Bay goes elsewhere, I say we try for a 2nd tier player that can hit .280, or go with the existing team and pick up a player as the season progresses.


Look your right Dunn is a bad fielder but did you even look at the numbers? I mean where did this come from "about 25 errors a year, which, incredibly, would be an improvement for him over last season." Last season he had 8 errors in 83 games, so 16 for the year. No need to strecth things to make him sound worse then he already is.

He isn't a good LF and strikes out too much. I don't think the Nationals will be looking for a Rasmus type for him. I also don't think the Cards will be trading for a "stud" OF. I look for them to make Holliday the best offer they can and then turn to Bay (by the way did anyone realize Dunn only struck out 10 times more the Bay this year), then like you said the second tier. Personally I'd just as soon they by pass Bay and go to Abreu


I guess you didn't hear Abreu signing a 2 year deal with an option for a 3rd year.

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November,5th, 2009
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futuregm
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Post subject: Re: Not a Dunn deal
Posted: 05 Nov 2009 19:48 pm

cardslesson101 wrote

futuregm wrote

This team needs someone like Dunn. Power and OBP. Exactly what they need.

I'd prefer Holliday, but if they can't get him, trading for Dunn would do.

Trade for Dunn and sign Figgins to a 3 year/$30 million deal. That's $20 million and basically what Holliday wants.

3B Figgins
2B Schumaker
1B Pujols
LF Dunn
RF Ludwick
CF Rasmus
C Molina
SS Ryan
Pitcher


A few things: 1. I understand what your getting at but the Nats would be asking to much because teams that would loose out on Holliday/Bay would look for the next best available outfielder. 2. Figgins will probably be a Type A free agent so it would make sense only if Holliday isn't resigned so they would still have a pick. 3. Who would be our 4/5th starter? 4. So you wouldn't want DeRosa back?


1) they might, I have no idea what we could give them anyways. I just thought if they could somehow pull off a trade for dunn, that'd be a nice lineup.

2) Last I saw Figgins is type B, but I don't think it's official yet.

3) Sign Smoltz or another vet/short term SP for the 4th spot and use Garcia or Boggs in the 5 spot.

4) Not in this plan. If they sign a lesser OF FA than Bay/Holliday, then you might as well get DeRosa back.

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