Home | Find it in today's St. Louis Post-Dispatch | Suburban Journals | St. Louis' Best Bridal | Ladue News | MySTLtoday.com | Coupons | Mobile
Log In | Subscriber Services | Advertise | Privacy
Web Search powered by YAHOO! SEARCH
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
Not a Dunn deal
Post new topic Reply to topic
>Previous Topic >Next Topic
author
message
futuregm
Forum User
futuregm is offline 
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 5979
Post subject: Re: Not a Dunn deal
Posted: 07 Nov 2009 19:49 pm

B_Ruby wrote

Look at how the Cards' hit in 2009, by position (does not include what some position players did as pinch-hitters):

1B: .320/.434/.631/1.064 (45 HR/133 RBI)
2B: .288/.355/.392/.746 (6 HR/43 RBI by platoon)
SS: .279/.336/.400/.736 (7 HR/60 RBI)
3B: .229/.292/.369/.661 (16 HR/65 RBI)
LF: .262/.339/.436/.775 (21 HR/102 RBI)
CF: .248/.301/.401/.701 (20 HR/70 RBI)
RF: .265/.323/.431/.754 (24 HR/110 RBI)
.C: .286/.354/.375/.729 (8 HR/60 RBI)

Shortstop was more solid, both offensively and defensively, when Brendan Ryan pretty much seized the job in late May.

Holliday certainly isn't likely to hit .353 for a full season. It should be noted, though, that Holliday is more likely to average what he did in his last 43 games (.290/.374/.497/.871) than his first 20 games, when he hit .469.

That said, if the Cards got the end results out of LF in 2010 as they did in 2008, but without the roller coaster of famine for 3 1/2 months, feast for a month, and plateau for 1 1/2 months, they'd be served well.

They just have to get more out of their hitters who play 3B and CF, especially from the standpoint of on-base percentage, most notably if Rasmus hits 2nd. He has to get on base more often than 30.7% of the time.


For what it's worth he was probably our best #2 hitter after July 24th, as he got on base at a .379 clip. That probably just points out how awful he was in the other spots during that time though since he was beyond awful in the 2nd half.

It's kind of a dilemma though. I'd prefer Rasmus lower in the order to be a run producer, but he hit much better in the #2 hole then say in the 6 hole.
_________________


My Blog: unparalleledbaseball.blogspot.com
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
B_Ruby
Forum User
B_Ruby is offline 
Joined: 08 Aug 2008
Posts: 4555
Post subject: Re: Not a Dunn deal
Posted: 07 Nov 2009 19:57 pm

futuregm wrote

B_Ruby wrote

Look at how the Cards' hit in 2009, by position (does not include what some position players did as pinch-hitters):

1B: .320/.434/.631/1.064 (45 HR/133 RBI)
2B: .288/.355/.392/.746 (6 HR/43 RBI by platoon)
SS: .279/.336/.400/.736 (7 HR/60 RBI)
3B: .229/.292/.369/.661 (16 HR/65 RBI)
LF: .262/.339/.436/.775 (21 HR/102 RBI)
CF: .248/.301/.401/.701 (20 HR/70 RBI)
RF: .265/.323/.431/.754 (24 HR/110 RBI)
.C: .286/.354/.375/.729 (8 HR/60 RBI)

Shortstop was more solid, both offensively and defensively, when Brendan Ryan pretty much seized the job in late May.

Holliday certainly isn't likely to hit .353 for a full season. It should be noted, though, that Holliday is more likely to average what he did in his last 43 games (.290/.374/.497/.871) than his first 20 games, when he hit .469.

That said, if the Cards got the end results out of LF in 2010 as they did in 2008, but without the roller coaster of famine for 3 1/2 months, feast for a month, and plateau for 1 1/2 months, they'd be served well.

They just have to get more out of their hitters who play 3B and CF, especially from the standpoint of on-base percentage, most notably if Rasmus hits 2nd. He has to get on base more often than 30.7% of the time.


For what it's worth he was probably our best #2 hitter after July 24th, as he got on base at a .379 clip. That probably just points out how awful he was in the other spots during that time though since he was beyond awful in the 2nd half.

It's kind of a dilemma though. I'd prefer Rasmus lower in the order to be a run producer, but he hit much better in the #2 hole then say in the 6 hole.


His best average came in the #5 spot, strangely enough. I don't anticipate Rasmus will have the same kind of power outage in 2010 as he suffered in the second half of 2009, as he had what, only three doubles after the all-star break (after having 19 earlier)?
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
imetsachelpaige
Forum User
imetsachelpaige is offline 
Joined: 07 Jun 2009
Posts: 137
Post subject: Re: Not a Dunn deal
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 11:06 am
They just have to get more out of their hitters who play 3B and CF, especially from the standpoint of on-base percentage, most notably if Rasmus hits 2nd. He has to get on base more often than 30.7% of the time.

I agree completely. I posted on Rasmus last season a number of times. At one point, he went 94 straight at bats without a walk. This kid has to learn the strike zone, patience, realize it is key for him to get on in front of AP, and accept the fact that he needs to drive the ball, not try to hit it out every time. I see McGuire as being very helpful in this regard, as he was one of the most patient hitters I ever saw play the game.


Last edited by imetsachelpaige on 08 Nov 2009 15:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
ace-king
Forum User
ace-king is offline 
Joined: 26 May 2009
Posts: 2450
Post subject: Re: Not a Dunn deal
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 12:55 pm

B_Ruby wrote

espritdesstlouis wrote


I honestly don't think so, and because St.Louis is a mid market team, I doubt it is possible.

As I've made abundantly clear, if it were my quarter, I'd try to acquire Escobar to add more punch to our MI.

Sure, I would be thrilled to keep Matt, Mark, and Joel, and I also believe that if we achieved that, we would be among the favorites to make the postseason.

But to do the above, the Cardinal budget, IMHO, would be at it's limit ( as far as the offseason is concerned )

I've always maintained that the Cardinals need to strengthen their core, and Holliday represents a move in that direction.

I love Schu's heart, but I agree that he doesn't provide the skill set for the Cardinals to improve. We made him a 2B because he was our only option to bat lead off.

However, to work the payroll, tha Cardinals need to have some players that are cost effective, and Schu is one of those players.

If the players that I mentioned before improve on portions of their 2009 season, I can see the Cardinals making a serious run in 2010.

Honestly, I don't see much more that the Cardinals can do.

P.S. As for the " jukebox ", that is nothing more than sharing the gift of music with others, and being exposed to music that one is not familiar with.


All excellent points. All too often in 2009 the Cards looked to Pujols to carry them, and did the same with Holliday after he arrived. DeRosa contributed a number of solo home runs, while he left too many runners on base.

esprit is absolutely correct, that Schu was moved to 2B largely because he could be a lead off hitter, more so than anyone else on the roster.

I'd like to see Yunel Escobar at 2B, as he could be a leadoff hitter or drive in runs if asked to hit 6th. But the Braves have maintained a high price for anyone inquiring about trading for Escobar.

If the team gets improvement out of CF (and they should, as Rasmus will graduate to play every day, without a 4-outfield rotation) and just some consistent hitting out of 3B and LF, as long as the pitching is as good as last year they'll be better.

The two of you are getting right at the heart of what I'm trying to say - except you are saying it better: too dam...much dependence on Pujols and Holliday. I'm not going to research it, but I doubt that there's been many successful teams driven by just two key players - and when I speak of "driven", I'm referring to run production, largely RBIs. Beyond those two and the up-and-down Ludwick, that's where we had most our RBIs - with so little balance (others contributing). You look at all the good teams - the Angels, the Yanks, the Dodgers, obviously the Phils - and there is balance. When it's not Howard or Utley or Ibanez, it's Werth or Victorino or Rollins or Feliz - even Ruiz and Ben Francisco contribute. Sure, "getting on base" is important - but you can't just have a couple people driving them in - and that's a large part of the Cards' problem.

Solutions? Derosa back to his form of early this year or the past 2 years - and playing at 2nd b - would already increment the RBIs and run production by a lot (don't want to give numbers). Freese - as many have mentioned - just getting 70-80 RBIs out of 3B - would represent another big increment; add a stronger Rasmus contributing from CF - and suddenly we begin to have the kind of balance the good clubs have. Ryan's contributions (specially, if they let him run some more...) and Molina's 54 RBIs (7th among 30 catchers in both leagues) are just fine, considering their fine defense.
_________________
one inexpert opinion
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
antho
Forum User
antho is offline 
Joined: 20 Feb 2009
Posts: 2422
Location: Spring Valley, IL
Post subject: Re: Not a Dunn deal
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 13:03 pm

ace-king wrote

B_Ruby wrote

espritdesstlouis wrote


I honestly don't think so, and because St.Louis is a mid market team, I doubt it is possible.

As I've made abundantly clear, if it were my quarter, I'd try to acquire Escobar to add more punch to our MI.

Sure, I would be thrilled to keep Matt, Mark, and Joel, and I also believe that if we achieved that, we would be among the favorites to make the postseason.

But to do the above, the Cardinal budget, IMHO, would be at it's limit ( as far as the offseason is concerned )

I've always maintained that the Cardinals need to strengthen their core, and Holliday represents a move in that direction.

I love Schu's heart, but I agree that he doesn't provide the skill set for the Cardinals to improve. We made him a 2B because he was our only option to bat lead off.

However, to work the payroll, tha Cardinals need to have some players that are cost effective, and Schu is one of those players.

If the players that I mentioned before improve on portions of their 2009 season, I can see the Cardinals making a serious run in 2010.

Honestly, I don't see much more that the Cardinals can do.

P.S. As for the " jukebox ", that is nothing more than sharing the gift of music with others, and being exposed to music that one is not familiar with.


All excellent points. All too often in 2009 the Cards looked to Pujols to carry them, and did the same with Holliday after he arrived. DeRosa contributed a number of solo home runs, while he left too many runners on base.

esprit is absolutely correct, that Schu was moved to 2B largely because he could be a lead off hitter, more so than anyone else on the roster.

I'd like to see Yunel Escobar at 2B, as he could be a leadoff hitter or drive in runs if asked to hit 6th. But the Braves have maintained a high price for anyone inquiring about trading for Escobar.

If the team gets improvement out of CF (and they should, as Rasmus will graduate to play every day, without a 4-outfield rotation) and just some consistent hitting out of 3B and LF, as long as the pitching is as good as last year they'll be better.

The two of you are getting right at the heart of what I'm trying to say - except you are saying it better: too dam...much dependence on Pujols and Holliday. I'm not going to research it, but I doubt that there's been many successful teams driven by just two key players - and when I speak of "driven", I'm referring to run production, largely RBIs. Beyond those two and the up-and-down Ludwick, that's where we had most our RBIs - with so little balance (others contributing). You look at all the good teams - the Angels, the Yanks, the Dodgers, obviously the Phils - and there is balance. When it's not Howard or Utley or Ibanez, it's Werth or Victorino or Rollins or Feliz - even Ruiz and Ben Francisco contribute. Sure, "getting on base" is important - but you can't just have a couple people driving them in - and that's a large part of the Cards' problem.

Solutions? Derosa back to his form of early this year or the past 2 years - and playing at 2nd b - would already increment the RBIs and run production by a lot (don't want to give numbers). Freese - as many have mentioned - just getting 70-80 RBIs out of 3B - would represent another big increment; add a stronger Rasmus contributing from CF - and suddenly we begin to have the kind of balance the good clubs have. Ryan's contributions (specially, if they let him run some more...) and Molina's 54 RBIs (7th among 30 catchers in both leagues) are just fine, considering their fine defense.


How much more did Francisco, Ruiz and Feliz contribute than say Rasmus, Molina and Derosa? Thanks.
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
ace-king
Forum User
ace-king is offline 
Joined: 26 May 2009
Posts: 2450
Post subject: Re: Not a Dunn deal
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 13:51 pm

antho wrote

ace-king wrote

B_Ruby wrote

espritdesstlouis wrote


I honestly don't think so, and because St.Louis is a mid market team, I doubt it is possible.

As I've made abundantly clear, if it were my quarter, I'd try to acquire Escobar to add more punch to our MI.

Sure, I would be thrilled to keep Matt, Mark, and Joel, and I also believe that if we achieved that, we would be among the favorites to make the postseason.

But to do the above, the Cardinal budget, IMHO, would be at it's limit ( as far as the offseason is concerned )

I've always maintained that the Cardinals need to strengthen their core, and Holliday represents a move in that direction.

I love Schu's heart, but I agree that he doesn't provide the skill set for the Cardinals to improve. We made him a 2B because he was our only option to bat lead off.

However, to work the payroll, tha Cardinals need to have some players that are cost effective, and Schu is one of those players.

If the players that I mentioned before improve on portions of their 2009 season, I can see the Cardinals making a serious run in 2010.

Honestly, I don't see much more that the Cardinals can do.

P.S. As for the " jukebox ", that is nothing more than sharing the gift of music with others, and being exposed to music that one is not familiar with.


All excellent points. All too often in 2009 the Cards looked to Pujols to carry them, and did the same with Holliday after he arrived. DeRosa contributed a number of solo home runs, while he left too many runners on base.

esprit is absolutely correct, that Schu was moved to 2B largely because he could be a lead off hitter, more so than anyone else on the roster.

I'd like to see Yunel Escobar at 2B, as he could be a leadoff hitter or drive in runs if asked to hit 6th. But the Braves have maintained a high price for anyone inquiring about trading for Escobar.

If the team gets improvement out of CF (and they should, as Rasmus will graduate to play every day, without a 4-outfield rotation) and just some consistent hitting out of 3B and LF, as long as the pitching is as good as last year they'll be better.

The two of you are getting right at the heart of what I'm trying to say - except you are saying it better: too dam...much dependence on Pujols and Holliday. I'm not going to research it, but I doubt that there's been many successful teams driven by just two key players - and when I speak of "driven", I'm referring to run production, largely RBIs. Beyond those two and the up-and-down Ludwick, that's where we had most our RBIs - with so little balance (others contributing). You look at all the good teams - the Angels, the Yanks, the Dodgers, obviously the Phils - and there is balance. When it's not Howard or Utley or Ibanez, it's Werth or Victorino or Rollins or Feliz - even Ruiz and Ben Francisco contribute. Sure, "getting on base" is important - but you can't just have a couple people driving them in - and that's a large part of the Cards' problem.

Solutions? Derosa back to his form of early this year or the past 2 years - and playing at 2nd b - would already increment the RBIs and run production by a lot (don't want to give numbers). Freese - as many have mentioned - just getting 70-80 RBIs out of 3B - would represent another big increment; add a stronger Rasmus contributing from CF - and suddenly we begin to have the kind of balance the good clubs have. Ryan's contributions (specially, if they let him run some more...) and Molina's 54 RBIs (7th among 30 catchers in both leagues) are just fine, considering their fine defense.


How much more did Francisco, Ruiz and Feliz contribute than say Rasmus, Molina and Derosa? Thanks.

Without so much as looking it up, I'll bet they contributed over double the RBIs and HRs and SBs of your boy, Schu.
_________________
one inexpert opinion
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
antho
Forum User
antho is offline 
Joined: 20 Feb 2009
Posts: 2422
Location: Spring Valley, IL
Post subject: Re: Not a Dunn deal
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 13:58 pm

ace-king wrote

antho wrote

ace-king wrote

B_Ruby wrote

espritdesstlouis wrote


I honestly don't think so, and because St.Louis is a mid market team, I doubt it is possible.

As I've made abundantly clear, if it were my quarter, I'd try to acquire Escobar to add more punch to our MI.

Sure, I would be thrilled to keep Matt, Mark, and Joel, and I also believe that if we achieved that, we would be among the favorites to make the postseason.

But to do the above, the Cardinal budget, IMHO, would be at it's limit ( as far as the offseason is concerned )

I've always maintained that the Cardinals need to strengthen their core, and Holliday represents a move in that direction.

I love Schu's heart, but I agree that he doesn't provide the skill set for the Cardinals to improve. We made him a 2B because he was our only option to bat lead off.

However, to work the payroll, tha Cardinals need to have some players that are cost effective, and Schu is one of those players.

If the players that I mentioned before improve on portions of their 2009 season, I can see the Cardinals making a serious run in 2010.

Honestly, I don't see much more that the Cardinals can do.

P.S. As for the " jukebox ", that is nothing more than sharing the gift of music with others, and being exposed to music that one is not familiar with.


All excellent points. All too often in 2009 the Cards looked to Pujols to carry them, and did the same with Holliday after he arrived. DeRosa contributed a number of solo home runs, while he left too many runners on base.

esprit is absolutely correct, that Schu was moved to 2B largely because he could be a lead off hitter, more so than anyone else on the roster.

I'd like to see Yunel Escobar at 2B, as he could be a leadoff hitter or drive in runs if asked to hit 6th. But the Braves have maintained a high price for anyone inquiring about trading for Escobar.

If the team gets improvement out of CF (and they should, as Rasmus will graduate to play every day, without a 4-outfield rotation) and just some consistent hitting out of 3B and LF, as long as the pitching is as good as last year they'll be better.

The two of you are getting right at the heart of what I'm trying to say - except you are saying it better: too dam...much dependence on Pujols and Holliday. I'm not going to research it, but I doubt that there's been many successful teams driven by just two key players - and when I speak of "driven", I'm referring to run production, largely RBIs. Beyond those two and the up-and-down Ludwick, that's where we had most our RBIs - with so little balance (others contributing). You look at all the good teams - the Angels, the Yanks, the Dodgers, obviously the Phils - and there is balance. When it's not Howard or Utley or Ibanez, it's Werth or Victorino or Rollins or Feliz - even Ruiz and Ben Francisco contribute. Sure, "getting on base" is important - but you can't just have a couple people driving them in - and that's a large part of the Cards' problem.

Solutions? Derosa back to his form of early this year or the past 2 years - and playing at 2nd b - would already increment the RBIs and run production by a lot (don't want to give numbers). Freese - as many have mentioned - just getting 70-80 RBIs out of 3B - would represent another big increment; add a stronger Rasmus contributing from CF - and suddenly we begin to have the kind of balance the good clubs have. Ryan's contributions (specially, if they let him run some more...) and Molina's 54 RBIs (7th among 30 catchers in both leagues) are just fine, considering their fine defense.


How much more did Francisco, Ruiz and Feliz contribute than say Rasmus, Molina and Derosa? Thanks.

Without so much as looking it up, I'll bet they contributed over double the RBIs and HRs and SBs of your boy, Schu.


Wow you are lame. U get asked an honest question and u change the subject to something completely different. Now answer the question.

How much more did Francisco, Ruiz and Feliz contribute than say Rasmus, Molina and Derosa?

You brought those 3 guys up from the Phillies now please answer the question.
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
futuregm
Forum User
futuregm is offline 
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 5979
Post subject: Re: Not a Dunn deal
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 14:15 pm

antho wrote

ace-king wrote

B_Ruby wrote

espritdesstlouis wrote


I honestly don't think so, and because St.Louis is a mid market team, I doubt it is possible.

As I've made abundantly clear, if it were my quarter, I'd try to acquire Escobar to add more punch to our MI.

Sure, I would be thrilled to keep Matt, Mark, and Joel, and I also believe that if we achieved that, we would be among the favorites to make the postseason.

But to do the above, the Cardinal budget, IMHO, would be at it's limit ( as far as the offseason is concerned )

I've always maintained that the Cardinals need to strengthen their core, and Holliday represents a move in that direction.

I love Schu's heart, but I agree that he doesn't provide the skill set for the Cardinals to improve. We made him a 2B because he was our only option to bat lead off.

However, to work the payroll, tha Cardinals need to have some players that are cost effective, and Schu is one of those players.

If the players that I mentioned before improve on portions of their 2009 season, I can see the Cardinals making a serious run in 2010.

Honestly, I don't see much more that the Cardinals can do.

P.S. As for the " jukebox ", that is nothing more than sharing the gift of music with others, and being exposed to music that one is not familiar with.


All excellent points. All too often in 2009 the Cards looked to Pujols to carry them, and did the same with Holliday after he arrived. DeRosa contributed a number of solo home runs, while he left too many runners on base.

esprit is absolutely correct, that Schu was moved to 2B largely because he could be a lead off hitter, more so than anyone else on the roster.

I'd like to see Yunel Escobar at 2B, as he could be a leadoff hitter or drive in runs if asked to hit 6th. But the Braves have maintained a high price for anyone inquiring about trading for Escobar.

If the team gets improvement out of CF (and they should, as Rasmus will graduate to play every day, without a 4-outfield rotation) and just some consistent hitting out of 3B and LF, as long as the pitching is as good as last year they'll be better.

The two of you are getting right at the heart of what I'm trying to say - except you are saying it better: too dam...much dependence on Pujols and Holliday. I'm not going to research it, but I doubt that there's been many successful teams driven by just two key players - and when I speak of "driven", I'm referring to run production, largely RBIs. Beyond those two and the up-and-down Ludwick, that's where we had most our RBIs - with so little balance (others contributing). You look at all the good teams - the Angels, the Yanks, the Dodgers, obviously the Phils - and there is balance. When it's not Howard or Utley or Ibanez, it's Werth or Victorino or Rollins or Feliz - even Ruiz and Ben Francisco contribute. Sure, "getting on base" is important - but you can't just have a couple people driving them in - and that's a large part of the Cards' problem.

Solutions? Derosa back to his form of early this year or the past 2 years - and playing at 2nd b - would already increment the RBIs and run production by a lot (don't want to give numbers). Freese - as many have mentioned - just getting 70-80 RBIs out of 3B - would represent another big increment; add a stronger Rasmus contributing from CF - and suddenly we begin to have the kind of balance the good clubs have. Ryan's contributions (specially, if they let him run some more...) and Molina's 54 RBIs (7th among 30 catchers in both leagues) are just fine, considering their fine defense.


How much more did Francisco, Ruiz and Feliz contribute than say Rasmus, Molina and Derosa? Thanks.


Not that much more, but Rollins, Werth, Victorino, etc. offered much more than Ryan, Schumaker, and Ludwick. And Utley was in Philly for a whole year, vs. Holliday's 2 months.

As for that question though, Feliz gave similar, albeit less production than Rasmus.

Ruiz was better offensively than molina, but worse defensively I'm sure.

Francisco's batting line was much, much better than DeRosa's, although since Ace loves the longball, Francisco would probably be considered then him. Rolling Eyes

Difference between the Cards and Phillies lies in the players like Werth, Victorino, Utley,etc. vs. guys like Ludwick, Ryan, and only 2 months of Holliday.

Even if the Cardinals re-sign Holliday, I don't think the offense can match Philadelphia's.
_________________


My Blog: unparalleledbaseball.blogspot.com
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
tenor1trpt
Forum User
tenor1trpt is offline 
Joined: 20 Jul 2008
Posts: 6266
Location: Kool-Aid City
Post subject: Re: Not a Dunn deal
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 14:23 pm

futuregm wrote

antho wrote

ace-king wrote

B_Ruby wrote

espritdesstlouis wrote


I honestly don't think so, and because St.Louis is a mid market team, I doubt it is possible.

As I've made abundantly clear, if it were my quarter, I'd try to acquire Escobar to add more punch to our MI.

Sure, I would be thrilled to keep Matt, Mark, and Joel, and I also believe that if we achieved that, we would be among the favorites to make the postseason.

But to do the above, the Cardinal budget, IMHO, would be at it's limit ( as far as the offseason is concerned )

I've always maintained that the Cardinals need to strengthen their core, and Holliday represents a move in that direction.

I love Schu's heart, but I agree that he doesn't provide the skill set for the Cardinals to improve. We made him a 2B because he was our only option to bat lead off.

However, to work the payroll, tha Cardinals need to have some players that are cost effective, and Schu is one of those players.

If the players that I mentioned before improve on portions of their 2009 season, I can see the Cardinals making a serious run in 2010.

Honestly, I don't see much more that the Cardinals can do.

P.S. As for the " jukebox ", that is nothing more than sharing the gift of music with others, and being exposed to music that one is not familiar with.


All excellent points. All too often in 2009 the Cards looked to Pujols to carry them, and did the same with Holliday after he arrived. DeRosa contributed a number of solo home runs, while he left too many runners on base.

esprit is absolutely correct, that Schu was moved to 2B largely because he could be a lead off hitter, more so than anyone else on the roster.

I'd like to see Yunel Escobar at 2B, as he could be a leadoff hitter or drive in runs if asked to hit 6th. But the Braves have maintained a high price for anyone inquiring about trading for Escobar.

If the team gets improvement out of CF (and they should, as Rasmus will graduate to play every day, without a 4-outfield rotation) and just some consistent hitting out of 3B and LF, as long as the pitching is as good as last year they'll be better.

The two of you are getting right at the heart of what I'm trying to say - except you are saying it better: too dam...much dependence on Pujols and Holliday. I'm not going to research it, but I doubt that there's been many successful teams driven by just two key players - and when I speak of "driven", I'm referring to run production, largely RBIs. Beyond those two and the up-and-down Ludwick, that's where we had most our RBIs - with so little balance (others contributing). You look at all the good teams - the Angels, the Yanks, the Dodgers, obviously the Phils - and there is balance. When it's not Howard or Utley or Ibanez, it's Werth or Victorino or Rollins or Feliz - even Ruiz and Ben Francisco contribute. Sure, "getting on base" is important - but you can't just have a couple people driving them in - and that's a large part of the Cards' problem.

Solutions? Derosa back to his form of early this year or the past 2 years - and playing at 2nd b - would already increment the RBIs and run production by a lot (don't want to give numbers). Freese - as many have mentioned - just getting 70-80 RBIs out of 3B - would represent another big increment; add a stronger Rasmus contributing from CF - and suddenly we begin to have the kind of balance the good clubs have. Ryan's contributions (specially, if they let him run some more...) and Molina's 54 RBIs (7th among 30 catchers in both leagues) are just fine, considering their fine defense.


How much more did Francisco, Ruiz and Feliz contribute than say Rasmus, Molina and Derosa? Thanks.


Not that much more, but Rollins, Werth, Victorino, etc. offered much more than Ryan, Schumaker, and Ludwick. And Utley was in Philly for a whole year, vs. Holliday's 2 months.

As for that question though, Feliz gave similar, albeit less production than Rasmus.

Ruiz was better offensively than molina, but worse defensively I'm sure.

Francisco's batting line was much, much better than DeRosa's, although since Ace loves the longball, Francisco would probably be considered then him. Rolling Eyes

Difference between the Cards and Phillies lies in the players like Werth, Victorino, Utley,etc. vs. guys like Ludwick, Ryan, and only 2 months of Holliday.

Even if the Cardinals re-sign Holliday, I don't think the offense can match Philadelphia's.


They need to get better production fron 3B, CF, and RF. Plus, they need to sign an effective LFer to boot. Doing those things will help get them closer and should make it close. The Phillies did not win many more games than the Cards in 2009.

A better 2B would help, but who is available? I'd advocate for Polanco and make Schu a supersub. But that move means nothing if the Cards do not address 3B and LF.

Also, sometimes a team is just really good. The Phillies are really good. The Cards have an uphill battle, no doubt. But things need to play out. How many here said the Cubs would win in 09? Heck, we had posters already saying the Cubs will win in 2010!

Get the best guys you can, in order of importance (LF, 3B), and play the games.

You cannot have all star slugging players at every position. C, 2B and SS, for the Cards, are light hitting positions. So LF, CF, RF, 3B and 1B have to be those guys. If those 5 guys can hit RBI's consistently, they won't need Schu to be Utley or Cano.
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
ace-king
Forum User
ace-king is offline 
Joined: 26 May 2009
Posts: 2450
Post subject: Re: Not a Dunn deal
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 14:30 pm

futuregm wrote

futuregm wrote




Francisco's batting line was much, much better than DeRosa's, although since Ace loves the longball, Francisco would probably be considered then him.

Future - please represent my view correctly. My comments on Schumaker have been that he neither provides power/RBIs nor speed nor defense. I have clearly commented on SEVERAL low-HR players, who contribute well because they do SOMETHING else (examples included Kendrick, Ellsbury, Figgins, and others). I'm not hung up on power AT ALL - but if there's no power, there's got to be some other production - Polanco is a good example - not a lot of HRs, but he does so much more with men on base and RISP, as well as outstanding defense. For the Cards, I am supportive of Ryan, despite little power - as he provides outstanding defense and can run.
_________________
one inexpert opinion
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
davdaddy
Forum User
davdaddy is offline 
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 776
Post subject: Re: Not a Dunn deal
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 16:11 pm
A lot of good inuts here (bickering aside). If we back off a short distance and look at what we have to start with and what we need, it is obvious that the 3b and lf slots as well as starting pitching are critical needs. I have been a vocal supporter of adding Polanco as I feel he does so many things above average, many of them not measured in stats. (bunting, hitting to the right side to move runners over, etc.) But, the problem as I see it is that there are too many bigger problems to solve than 2b. If we assume that Holliday is not going to be in LF, then I would go strong for Nady. I also believe that if Holliday is gone that we really must sign DeRosa to have that versatility of having a bat at 3b or 2b or OF. We really need a good lefty starter. We may not be able to match Philly with the everyday lineup, but when we meet them in a short series, we need a lefty to go along with Carpenter and Wainwright. I don't think that much pressure should be put on Garcia as yet. So, rather than add Smoltz for one year, I would rather add a lefty.
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
nighthawk
Forum User
nighthawk is offline 
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 2081
Post subject: Re: Not a Dunn deal
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 16:33 pm

imetsachelpaige wrote


I agree completely. I posted on Rasmus last season a number of times. At one point, he went 94 straight at bats without a walk. This kid has to learn the strike zone, patience, realize it is key for him to get on in front of AP, and accept the fact that he needs to drive the ball, not try to hit it out every time. I see McGuire as being very helpful in this regard, as he was one of the most patient hitters I ever saw play the game.


Oh please. He was a rookie and pretty much did what rookies -- even those with an abundance of talent -- do their first year. He discovered there is a big difference between major league and minor league pitching.

My apologies for the retread, but Rasmus in the minors had the same skill sets as Lankford, except that he walked a little more and struck out a little more. In his first full year in the majors, Lankford hit .251 with a .301 oba and .392 slugging percentage.
The following year he matured as a major league hitter and hit .293 .371 .480. I see no reason why Rasmus wouldn't mature in the same manner -- regardless of who is the hitting coach.

The biggest difference between the two is that Lankford was 24 when he had his first full major league season. Rasmus was 22.

Just because he wears a Cardinal uniform does not mean he's not subject to the need to adjust and mature as a major league hitter -- as virtually all highly touted rookes do.
_________________
One forum, many disorders
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
All times are CST (CST6CDT)
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
Post new topic Reply to topic
> >Previous Topic >Next Topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum