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Bring back those good old days
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Latinist
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Post subject: Bring back those good old days
Posted: 06 Nov 2009 09:07 am
The demise of the reserve clause and the mandate for free agency was good for players' salaries and the chance to be on a winner but not for fan identification with the team and players. During the 1940's a fan knew the lineup for the Cardinals every year- Moore Musial, Slaughter, Kurowski, Marion etc. A fan also knew the lineup of the hated and feared Dodgers with Reiser, Reese,Hodges, Schneider, Campanella Robinson. Musial and Slaughter were synonomous with the word Cardinals just as any of the above were with the Dodgers. How long will it be before Alber P shows up in a different uniform or even goes to the American League.. Now when a uniform is retired or a player goes into the HOF he has to decide which team he wants to claim as his own. Free ageny is required by law and there is no way an owner can be prevented from paying huge salaries and attempting to buy the championship. The amountof money Albert P will be ablet to command is unimaginable.
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espritdesstlouis
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Post subject: Re: Bring back those good old days
Posted: 06 Nov 2009 09:14 am
You mean the days that if your team played on the west coast, you didn't see the box score until 2 days later ?

No interweb chat rooms, no football highlights until " This week in football ", no other scores unless the announcers gave them ?

You don't mean this. Cool
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NJ Cards Fan
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Post subject: Re: Bring back those good old days
Posted: 06 Nov 2009 10:32 am

Latinist wrote

The demise of the reserve clause and the mandate for free agency was good for players' salaries and the chance to be on a winner but not for fan identification with the team and players. During the 1940's a fan knew the lineup for the Cardinals every year- Moore Musial, Slaughter, Kurowski, Marion etc. A fan also knew the lineup of the hated and feared Dodgers with Reiser, Reese,Hodges, Schneider, Campanella Robinson. Musial and Slaughter were synonomous with the word Cardinals just as any of the above were with the Dodgers. How long will it be before Alber P shows up in a different uniform or even goes to the American League.. Now when a uniform is retired or a player goes into the HOF he has to decide which team he wants to claim as his own. Free ageny is required by law and there is no way an owner can be prevented from paying huge salaries and attempting to buy the championship. The amountof money Albert P will be ablet to command is unimaginable.


Yeah, and I remember the day Slaughter was traded to the Yankees and the day Boyer was traded to the Mets.

Guys like Colivito and Mays were traded.

How about Ralph Kiner, won another batting title, asked for a raise, and was told, "We finished last with you, and we can finish last without you." But he was the only reason fans went tp the Pirates games.
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Bottenfield
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Post subject: Re: Bring back those good old days
Posted: 06 Nov 2009 11:05 am
There's no going back but maybe there are some creative ways to encourage loyalty between teams and players. I'd be all for it. I guess the compensation picks act in this direction. Maybe we need more penalty for signing someone elses players. I find myself having a lot of respect for those guys that stick with one team (well, the supporting case type players don't have a lot of say in it). Gwynn, the killer B's in Houston, Ripken, Jeter (not that it was a tough decision there but still), etc. It still happens but it's rare and takes the right player and situation. More continuity would be nice.

Actually, I don't follow any other sports the way I do with baseball. Is there just as much of this in, say, football where they have a salary cap. Seems like that could help but since the NFL has tested this water the info should be out there.
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THE ANTI CUBBY
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Post subject: Re: Bring back those good old days
Posted: 06 Nov 2009 11:08 am
If only we could axe some teams, the playoffs and go back to 154 games per season. I'm all for bringing back the good old days there Smile
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LTSmash
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Post subject: Re: Bring back those good old days
Posted: 06 Nov 2009 12:31 pm
Actually, Bill James of the Baseball Abstract did a study a few years ago that found that since the start of free agency in 1976, players are more prone to stay with one team longer.

Personally, I think it's a result of the Santo Rule in 1973 that allowed the insertion of no-trade clauses into player contracts

Think Derek Jeter, Jorge Posada, Mariano Rivera, Cal Ripken, Kirby Puckett, Craig Biggio, Jeff Bagwell and Tim Salmon of the players just off the top of my head who spent their entire careers with one team.

Remember, the plural of anecdote is not data.

So wish for the good old days if you must. I really like the situation where your team isn't stuck at the mercy of having to make trades to improve the team -- they can pick up a great player through the free agent route without having to give up any talent in return, just money.
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Dalton
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Post subject: Re: Bring back those good old days
Posted: 06 Nov 2009 13:41 pm
The good old days also include the (Yankee) Game of the Week with Pee Wee Reese & Curt Gowdy where we who didn't live in St L might see the Cards play 2 times each season.
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Kincaid
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Post subject: Re: Bring back those good old days
Posted: 06 Nov 2009 14:38 pm

Latinist wrote

A fan also knew the lineup of the hated and feared Dodgers with Reiser, Reese,Hodges, Snider, Campanella, Robinson.


How many games did the Dodgers play with all those guys in the lineup? Those 6 were only all on the Dodgers in 1948, and they weren't all starters that year.

Like LTSmash pointed out, the number of players staying on the same team from year to year hasn't gone down from the good old days, and it has in fact gone up since the 40's. In fact, the 40s were a particularly volatile time for team stability because of the war, so I'm not sure why you cite that as your example.

Average number of players who played for one team in consecutive years in the 1940s: 19

Average number of players who played for one team in consecutive years this decade: 23

19 is about the what the number was in the decades preceding the 40s. By the 50s, it was up to 22. The transition started in the 40s, but was slowed because of the war years, although even in the non-war years, the number was still lower than it is now.
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Latinist
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Post subject: Thanks for the replies
Posted: 06 Nov 2009 19:44 pm
Your points were well made and appreciated. Perhaps my memories of the good old days have faded with time. I remember classic struggles with Preacher Roe and Don Newcombe. I have read that Musial got his nickname, The Man , from a comment made by a fan in Ebbets Field where Stan beat a tatoo off the right field wall; Oh no, here comes that man again! Is this true or just a story.
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espritdesstlouis
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Post subject: Re: Thanks for the replies
Posted: 06 Nov 2009 20:15 pm

Latinist wrote

Your points were well made and appreciated. Perhaps my memories of the good old days have faded with time. I remember classic struggles with Preacher Roe and Don Newcombe. I have read that Musial got his nickname, The Man , from a comment made by a fan in Ebbets Field where Stan beat a tatoo off the right field wall; Oh no, here comes that man again! Is this true or just a story.


I have read in more than one article that it is true.

P.S. I found this in Stan's biography ( answers.com )

Quote

Musial was disliked by Brooklyn Dodgers' fans, who bestowed his nickname. Groaning when he came up to bat in key situations, they would yell: "Oh no. Here comes that Man again." From then on, he was always "Stan the Man." Musial didn't find out till after he retired that Dodgers' shortstop, Pee Wee Reese, often used to steal his bat before games.

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Dalton
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Post subject: Re: Thanks for the replies
Posted: 06 Nov 2009 20:38 pm

Latinist wrote

Your points were well made and appreciated. Perhaps my memories of the good old days have faded with time. I remember classic struggles with Preacher Roe and Don Newcombe.


I didn't mean to dismiss the point of your post with my reference to the Game of the Week. I sometimes long for the "good old days": fewer teams, star hitters & pitchers on almost every roster, no PEDs, & less hot dogging (no ESPN highlights for players to play to, no bling, no batting gloves to adjust between every pitch, etc). Sentimentally it seemed purer & better despite the warts that were there & the great things today's game offers.
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Nuke LaLoosh
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Post subject: Re: Thanks for the replies
Posted: 06 Nov 2009 20:56 pm

Dalton wrote

Latinist wrote

Your points were well made and appreciated. Perhaps my memories of the good old days have faded with time. I remember classic struggles with Preacher Roe and Don Newcombe.


I didn't mean to dismiss the point of your post with my reference to the Game of the Week. I sometimes long for the "good old days": fewer teams, star hitters & pitchers on almost every roster, no PEDs, & less hot dogging (no ESPN highlights for players to play to, no bling, no batting gloves to adjust between every pitch, etc). Sentimentally it seemed purer & better despite the warts that were there & the great things today's game offers.


You'd have to go back pretty far for no PEDs. Weren't they already using greenies in the 50s?
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