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Murray Supporters
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EOM
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Post subject: Murray Supporters
Posted: 06 Nov 2009 15:40 pm
Personally, I'm on the fence regarding Andy Murray as head coach... I really value the second half of last season, the way he took an injury-riddled team to the playoffs. But it seems like once he gets a skilled team, he doesn't know how to coach them.

After last night's game, there's been plenty of opinions on the negative aspects of Murray's coaching. Particularly, the way he continues to give Kariya and Boyes top minutes when they are ineffective and struggling, while players like Oshie, Perron, Berglund, and Eller are really elevating their game.

What do the Murray supporters have to say about these things? It seems to me like there's a lot more Murray haters on this board, and I'd like to hear more of the other side's opinions, because I honestly haven't got my mind made up about Murray.
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babych10
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Post subject: Re: Murray Supporters
Posted: 06 Nov 2009 15:47 pm
I think I am down the middle.

Some nights I am very pleased with the job he is doing. I think he made a great move putting Perron on the checking line when he did for example (although he does not have to stay there all year Wink )

But I must agree sometimes like last night because I was left with a feeling that the Blues deserved better.

The argument that Murray hates young players is ridiculous.

But I feel I must ask this of everyone on here.

Do you think that Murray fully embraces a youth movement on the Blues.

That is a fair question I think and last night the answer would have to be no.

Sure Boyes played better last night but not 21 minutes to Perron's 14 for example.

And for cryin out loud why leave the same 5 guys out there on a 5 on 3, when they had not created anything substansial.
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Moe_Szyslak
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Post subject: Re: Murray Supporters
Posted: 06 Nov 2009 15:47 pm
We're paying Boyes and Kariya $10M. If they can't/won't produce, we are in deep trouble.

Murray is really good, but he's yet to figure out a way to finish from behind the bench.
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Rodimus Prime
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Post subject: Re: Murray Supporters
Posted: 06 Nov 2009 15:47 pm
Don't know if this helps...but I'm more on the fence now after being an ardent Murray guy.

You have to respect last years run...but at the same time...that is last year. The questions we have now are the same questions we would have had last year if there were no injuries.

Body of work to date is very good IMO...but You cannot keep running a square peg in to a round hole. Murray has the talent at his disposal to let some of the "kids" have some freedom and more ice time. I thin the question is...can he let the TALENT (which is the "kids" mostly) take over?

IMO this is new school vs old school and Murray needs to see the transition and adapt. I can't blame him/dislike him till he doesn't do it.

I think we'll find more and more people "on the fence".
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EOM
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Post subject: Re: Murray Supporters
Posted: 06 Nov 2009 15:54 pm

Rodimus Prime wrote

Don't know if this helps...but I'm more on the fence now after being an ardent Murray guy.

You have to respect last years run...but at the same time...that is last year. The questions we have now are the same questions we would have had last year if there were no injuries.

Body of work to date is very good IMO...but You cannot keep running a square peg in to a round hole. Murray has the talent at his disposal to let some of the "kids" have some freedom and more ice time. I thin the question is...can he let the TALENT (which is the "kids" mostly) take over?

IMO this is new school vs old school and Murray needs to see the transition and adapt. I can't blame him/dislike him till he doesn't do it.

I think we'll find more and more people "on the fence".


Yeah, I think my biggest issue with him is he seems reluctant to let the talented youth lead this team, even now when it is clear that the "proven veterans" aren't performing. Last night, the Eller - Berglund - Oshie line was, in my opinion, the best line for the Blues, yet Eller only played about 9 minutes and of those three, only Oshie saw OT time.
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BarnBurner
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Post subject: Re: Murray Supporters
Posted: 06 Nov 2009 15:56 pm
I don't agree with everything Murray does.
Personally, I would have parked Boyes, Carlo and Berglund in the pressbox for a couple of games each by now.
All I know, is that every single time, he is asked why he has done something - the answer always makes perfect sense to me.
Plus, unless they clearly demonstrate otherwise (see Mike Kitchens), I tend to think that a head coach probably knows a lot more about his team, and all the factors concerning it, than a simple fan like myself does.
I agree with his position that you make your own breaks.
If you do not have momentum - make it by doing something.
If you are not playing with confidence - make something happen, and you will be confident.
Waiting for someone to do it for you doesn't work.
I agree with his making rookies earn their way, not giving anything. It's the best thing for them, and the team in the long run.
Like all coaches, at some point, he will be replaced, but I don't think the Blues problems right now, are because of the coach. We have some players that are not paying the price for success, and the team by and large is not playing with desperation, like we say in the second half of last year.
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EOM
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Post subject: Re: Murray Supporters
Posted: 06 Nov 2009 16:01 pm

BarnBurner wrote

I don't agree with everything Murray does.
Personally, I would have parked Boyes, Carlo and Berglund in the pressbox for a couple of games each by now.
All I know, is that every single time, he is asked why he has done something - the answer always makes perfect sense to me.
Plus, unless they clearly demonstrate otherwise (see Mike Kitchens), I tend to think that a head coach probably knows a lot more about his team, and all the factors concerning it, than a simple fan like myself does.
I agree with his position that you make your own breaks.
If you do not have momentum - make it by doing something.
If you are not playing with confidence - make something happen, and you will be confident.
Waiting for someone to do it for you doesn't work.
I agree with his making rookies earn their way, not giving anything. It's the best thing for them, and the team in the long run.
Like all coaches, at some point, he will be replaced, but I don't think the Blues problems right now, are because of the coach. We have some players that are not paying the price for success, and the team by and large is not playing with desperation, like we say in the second half of last year.


That's a good point, but then why doesn't he treat the veterans the same way? I'm not saying he doesn't hold them accountable (even if we can't see it) but why are underperforming players like Boyes and Kariya getting more ice time than the youngsters? I think they've earned their way. Perron and Oshie have been excellent, Berglund is looking much better, and Eller had a very strong first game.
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Coins
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Post subject: Re: Murray Supporters
Posted: 06 Nov 2009 16:11 pm
I like Murray but I tire of him saying constantly that players earn their ice time. What he means to say is vets get a free pass while rookies have to really shine to earn some ice time.
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bodhidave
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Post subject: Re: Murray Supporters
Posted: 06 Nov 2009 16:11 pm
i disliked him for most of last year. But that is because i was being selfish. I have since changed my view of Murray.

Him and JD are building a well oiled machine. We may have the talent to reach the playoffs again this year but this is likely not the team that can win a cup.

Murray runs the team hard, they may be tired for games now, but if he keeps these hard practices up, the team endurance and energy will get significantly better. Teaching these kids how to last all game and all season seems to be what Murray is training them for.

My points leading to that we blues fans may be are getting ahead of ourselves, like a kid who knows what he has the night before Xmas but has to wait a day to play with it. Murray and Co have shown us whats to come but it seems as if they are just about done building the machine but they need to add the oil to make it fast and efficient.

The fruits of such labor are hard to see but in the long run, this team will be tough to beat because Murray made them tough. When this team wins a Cup, it may not be with Murray, but it will be because of him.
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GoThunder
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Post subject: Re: Murray Supporters
Posted: 06 Nov 2009 16:15 pm

Moe_Szyslak wrote

We're paying Boyes and Kariya $10M. If they can't/won't produce, we are in deep trouble.

Murray is really good, but he's yet to figure out a way to finish from behind the bench.


We are in deep trouble.
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BarnBurner
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Post subject: Re: Murray Supporters
Posted: 06 Nov 2009 16:18 pm

EOM wrote

BarnBurner wrote

I don't agree with everything Murray does.
Personally, I would have parked Boyes, Carlo and Berglund in the pressbox for a couple of games each by now.
All I know, is that every single time, he is asked why he has done something - the answer always makes perfect sense to me.
Plus, unless they clearly demonstrate otherwise (see Mike Kitchens), I tend to think that a head coach probably knows a lot more about his team, and all the factors concerning it, than a simple fan like myself does.
I agree with his position that you make your own breaks.
If you do not have momentum - make it by doing something.
If you are not playing with confidence - make something happen, and you will be confident.
Waiting for someone to do it for you doesn't work.
I agree with his making rookies earn their way, not giving anything. It's the best thing for them, and the team in the long run.
Like all coaches, at some point, he will be replaced, but I don't think the Blues problems right now, are because of the coach. We have some players that are not paying the price for success, and the team by and large is not playing with desperation, like we say in the second half of last year.


That's a good point, but then why doesn't he treat the veterans the same way? I'm not saying he doesn't hold them accountable (even if we can't see it) but why are underperforming players like Boyes and Kariya getting more ice time than the youngsters? I think they've earned their way. Perron and Oshie have been excellent, Berglund is looking much better, and Eller had a very strong first game.


I don't have any concrete answers, but having spent 34 years as a supervisor, I have a few guesses.
Murray believes, and I tend to agree, that the kids are going to supply energy,skill, and legs, but in the long run, the success of this team this year is probably going to depend on the veterans like Boyes, Kariya,etc producing the way they are expected to.
It's a big step up from being an energetic, talented supporting cast, to being the ones expected to carry the weight of the team. Murray probably figures most of the kids are not yet ready for that final step.
Murray is without a doubt, loyal to his veterans. We saw that with Legace last year. Despite his poor play, Murray gave him every opportunity possible to step up and prove he was still the Blues #1 goalie - certainly longer than I thought he should. Is he too loyal?
Perhaps. Altho,it's a commodity that I value greatly, so I tend to understand where he is coming from.
At some point, like with Legace, if certain vets don't get it together, I think we will see Murray either take steps himself, or advise the front office that certain people need to be moved.
As always - time will tell, and his future will depend on how his decisions work out.
When you are the boss - there are no easy answers. You have to do what you believe is right, even if nobody else does. You cannot fool the people that work for you. If you don't believe what you are telling them - they will never buy it.
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BarnBurner
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Post subject: Re: Murray Supporters
Posted: 06 Nov 2009 16:20 pm

Coins wrote

I like Murray but I tire of him saying constantly that players earn their ice time. What he means to say is vets get a free pass while rookies have to really shine to earn some ice time.


There is, and should be, a different standard for veterans and rookies, both in
sports, and in the workplace.
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