MizzouMafia
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Joined: 24 Apr 2009
Posts: 10
Post subject: A REASONED PLEA FOR CHANGE
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 00:16 am
Before dismissing this as another disenchanted fan looking to vent after a shocking upset at home, consider that I'm not even going to mention Saturday's game.
Let's take a larger view.
Other posters want to point to better recruiting and improved records under Pinkel.
I will cede both those points...but with a caveat.
It wouldn't have taken much to improve the pre-Pinkel records of Mizzou football teams.
After all, you can't fall off the floor.
It's been well-documented that Pinkel has landed just one 5-star recruit(Gabbert).
He has had a number of all-conference players who were lightly recruited 2 and 3-star players.
I would argue that Pinkel has a great eye for talent and he gets bonus points for attracting players to a moribund program.
I applaud the recruiting.
It's the coaching I take umbrage with.
The 2004 loss to Troy on national t.v. incensed Pinkel when Lee Corso called him out for having never won at Mizzou when trailing at halftime.
Nothing's changed in the ensuing five years(think of two games we've come from behind in the second half to win, take your time, I'll wait).
Pinkel is still unable to make halftime adjustments and the tread-laden coordinators can no longer be thrown under the bus because the same old problems still exist under two new coordinators.
After five conference games, Mizzou has yet to score a second half touchdown despite playing the worst teams in each division(CU and BU).
I don't buy the "we're so young" excuse thrown out by other posters.
Iowa State and Kansas State are the teams with the right to make excuses.
They're playing with second rate players recruited from the picked over leftovers by the other Big 12 teams.
What's the difference in an inferior team beating a superior team?
Coaching.
Other teams make halftime adjustments and game-to-game adjustments.
Pinkel makes year-to-year adjustments.
Rembemer the lost year wasted when Pinkel decided to make Brad Smith a drop back, pocket passer?
It didn't take a halftime, or one or two games for him to decide that wasn't working.
It took an entire season.
John Blake recruited well at Oklahoma too.
But those boosters could identify that effective recruiting was useless without effective coaching.
Blake won just 12 games in three years.
But the Sooners' 2000 national championship team featured 13 starters recruited by Blake.
Pinkel's a good guy and has performed yeomanlike work generating momentum with Mizzou's program.
But it's time he stepped aside to allow someone who can continue what he started.
And, yes, I remember what happened when boosters got disgruntled with Warren Powers(plunging us into two decades of obscurity) but Powers was a complacent recruiter who stopped having success after Onofrio's recruits left.
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cbensinger
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 250
Post subject: Re: A REASONED PLEA FOR CHANGE
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 01:17 am
Maybe I'll be in the minority; but I think there are some very valid points/comparisons here...
Navynuke
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Joined: 24 Jun 2009
Posts: 196
Post subject: Re: A REASONED PLEA FOR CHANGE
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 01:30 am
It is my firm belief that Pinkel is not going anywhere until after Gabbert graduates. But in the event that he is run out of town, who can MU pursue? The amount of money it would take to get a coach of the caliber most MU fans want is going to be very high. MU is going to be responsible for a severence package for Pinkel as well.
The only coach that I would like to see MU go after in the event that Pinkel leaves is Brent Venables. Unfortunately he will already be a head coach by the time MU makes a move.
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dgl75
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Post subject: Re: A REASONED PLEA FOR CHANGE
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 01:47 am
Pinkel has done a great job making Mizzou a team that is a consistent bowl team and is at the very least in the hunt for the Big 12 North each season. With that being said, I do wonder if maybe we have gone as far as we can with Pinkel as the coach. Maybe we need another coach to take us to the next level. I know this is supposed to be a rebuilding year but we should have beaten Baylor by at least two or three touch downs. The failure to make 2nd half adjustments is alarming and I don't think all of that can be blamed on having a young team.
nemocard
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Joined: 10 Dec 2008
Posts: 181
Post subject: Re: A REASONED PLEA FOR CHANGE
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 04:57 am
TCU coach Patterson is the best coaching canidate out there. This guy does so much more w/lesser talent,because he knows how to coach. Patterson might jump @ a position w/a Big 12 program like Mizzou. At Mizzou the foundation is here,we just need a leader to take us over the invinciable hump Pinkle can't seem to do-why? I'm tired of the excuses Pinkle give's everytime he speaks. Pinkle keep's saying this is his team & he is responsible, then do something about it Gary!
sofa
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Joined: 24 Oct 2000
Posts: 1121
Location: Boston
Post subject: Re: A REASONED PLEA FOR CHANGE
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 06:09 am
nemocard wrote
TCU coach Patterson is the best coaching canidate out there. This guy does so much more w/lesser talent,because he knows how to coach. Patterson might jump @ a position w/a Big 12 program like Mizzou. At Mizzou the foundation is here,we just need a leader to take us over the invinciable hump Pinkle can't seem to do-why? I'm tired of the excuses Pinkle give's everytime he speaks. Pinkle keep's saying this is his team & he is responsible, then do something about it Gary!
How does our fan base feel about the head coach? He has a two-syllable last name with no silent letters and a large segment of them still can't spell it correctly after seeing it in print for nine years.
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jerrell
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Joined: 05 Sep 2009
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Location: se mo/west ky
Post subject: Re: A REASONED PLEA FOR CHANGE
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 08:50 am
Quote
TCU coach Patterson is the best coaching canidate out there. This guy does so much more w/lesser talent,because he knows how to coach. Patterson might jump @ a position w/a Big 12 program like Mizzou.
Patterson said "no" to Kansas State, his alma mater, last year. He's pretty happy at TCU. Not much pressure there.
He may be a good game day coach, but his recruiting will need to improve if he were ever to move into a BCS conference. Based in Texas, his recruiting should be better than it is. It's good enough to beat the likes of UNLV, SDSU, etc but not more elite competition, at least on a consistent basis IMO.
MizzouMarv
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Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 79
Post subject: Plea
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 09:41 am
I'm not a football coach & like most here have watched football for many years, but still know the intricacies of the game. Some things just don't make any sense to me:
1. Baylor was averaging 8.6 pts in Big 12 play; score 40 on us.
2. Baylor is the WORST B12 team against the run; we rush for 10 yds! 25 rushes, 51 passes in a close game.
3. Baylor is starting its 3rd string QB (freshman); he throws for 427 yds!
4. Baylor has never won a B12 game when trailing at half, they were down 11 yesterday.
5. We scored 33 pts. in the 1st half last week, 3 in the 2nd; 27 in the first half yesterday, 5 in the 2nd.
6. We have a new DC, but the DB's are still making the same errors as last year.
7. T.J. Moe's didn't redshirt because he's probably our best recruit this year (who made into school). He started as a DB, but switched to WR to get more PT. I have only seen him in a couple of plays yet it seems we need all the help we can get in the defensive backfield!
8. We don't have any turnovers and our QB throws for 468 yds, but we lose to BAYLOR!
I could go on, but I have to go to work, but you get the gist.
GP is a good organizer and a tenacious director, but a bad judge of coaching talent. Instead staying with the same people he needed to bring in some help from coaches that had the talent and knowledge to bring the program to the next level.
Forget It
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Post subject: Re: A REASONED PLEA FOR CHANGE
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 09:49 am
The criticisms of GP in this thread have been going on for about 9 years.
They are just as valid now as in any year of his tenure.
It should be no surprise to anyone that he is the poster boy for the Peter Principle.
Yep, it will take a load of cash to replace him. So the choice is obvious, money or more of the same.
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jerrell
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Post subject: Re: A REASONED PLEA FOR CHANGE
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 10:01 am
Quote
Yep, it will take a load of cash to replace him. So the choice is obvious, money or more of the same.
The choice is indeed obvious, given the status of MU football on the CFB landscape. Many are going to have to learn to live with our game day coaching, and hope that improves or that we get some elite talent in here periodically. Otherwise, you will continue to be frustrated and disappointed. Not really worth it IMO to take the alternative approach. Sort of takes the fun out of a kid's game.
MizzouMarv
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Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 79
Post subject: Plea
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 10:34 am
I don't think we should fire GP. For one thing it would be cost prohibitive especially in this economy. He's done wonders bringing us back from the abyss of the late 70's, 80's, most of the 90's & early 00's. He graduates his players and is a stern disciplinarian. Recruits good kids and turns them ino good men; works hard and has a process in recruiting and program building that is methodical, but seemed to be heading us in right direction. His problem is his inability to build a competent and inovative staff. Texas was having defensive problems. Did Mack Brown stick with his coach? No, he brought in Muschamp. Snyder has won this year because he put together of staff of guys that he knew could do the job. We had a (bleep) D last year; yet GP promoted his LB coach to DC. Our DB's haven't been able to cover anyone for years, yet we have had the same DB coach for GP tenure. The only problem is: will GP be able to identify a good coach?
dodds2
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Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 2439
Post subject: Re: A REASONED PLEA FOR CHANGE
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 10:53 am
You could bring an up and coming Urban Meyer or Bob Stoops type into Missouri, and he's going to hit a plateau somewhere short of winning national titles. The reward for those types of guys is going to programs where the resources are available to win titles, after they've proved themselves as good coaches at the relative minor league level. Even if Mizzou, KU, Iowa St etc...got a Meyer, they wouldn't be able to keep him because the traditional power teams would sign him to a bigger deal.
