Pete Puma
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Post subject: Re: A REASONED PLEA FOR CHANGE
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 10:58 am
Jerrell wrote
Quote
Yep, it will take a load of cash to replace him. So the choice is obvious, money or more of the same.
The choice is indeed obvious, given the status of MU football on the CFB landscape. Many are going to have to learn to live with our game day coaching, and hope that improves or that we get some elite talent in here periodically. Otherwise, you will continue to be frustrated and disappointed. Not really worth it IMO to take the alternative approach. Sort of takes the fun out of a kid's game.
Well Said Jerrell....
We were driving home last night after the game and as disappointed as I was that we just lost to BAYLOR, I realized I wasn't as frustrated as I was after the Texas loss. Just disappointed.
A quick perspective: Our seats are home field side, 31 rows up, right on the 40 yard line (right in front of the students) and pretty much where Pinkel roams. We have seats right next to a current players Mom & Pop which is pretty cool. My perspective on X's and O's is strictly from a fan's perspective. BUT, yesterday IMO our assistants got outcoached by their assistants. There's your loss. That is what was most troubling to me on the ride home - is that Baylor's assistants outcoached our guys?? Another point (IMO) that get's lost on this board (by the OC & DC apologists) is that Yost and Steckel have been here. Its not as if they don't know the talent and the schemes they've run in the past (under Christensen & Eberflus). They've had an opportunity to improve on weaknesses from last year and tweak systems that are already in place.
Yesterday's view from the 40 yard line was not a lack of talent. We CLEARLY are a superior team. We kept saying to one another, "okay guys, just turn it on and put this team down. Enough with letting Baylor hang around." As the team slept walk through the 3rd quarter, it was obvious we were not making the right adjustments to beat Baylor. That was frustrating.
At the end of all this, my opinion is - in order for us to get over the hump, we have to upgrade in the off-season at the coordinator level. Pinkel is not the problem IMO. Alden needs to just let him know that sometimes loyalty can be a roadblock in the way of reaching the ultimate goal. Yost and Steckel don't seem to be making the haltime adjustments (needed) to put the players in position to win.
One last note: I was really glad to see Gettis respond and put his head down and stick a couple guys. Granted, our secondary schemes leave backs vulnerable to be exposed, but he stepped up his play Saturday and I was really happy to see that.
Retire 51
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Post subject: Re: A REASONED PLEA FOR CHANGE
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 12:09 pm
MizzouMafia wrote
It's been well-documented that Pinkel has landed just one 5-star recruit(Gabbert).
I don't buy the "we're so young" excuse thrown out by other posters.
[/b]
You do realise Sheldon was the number four player in the country correct?
And how do you just "not buy" something without a reason. I will give you the second half adjustment argument but actually being at the game witnessing that debacle yesterday, and witnessing every other game either in the stands or on TV I will tell you this much. Pinkel and the coordinators didn't drop at least 6 or 7 balls that were perfectly thrown and hit receivers in the hands, they didn't fall down in coverage, they didn't tell the offensive line to start leaving guys unblocked with little to no change in the blitzes or D-line rush.
In each of Missouri's losses the team has completely lost focus on the game, which has led to drops, blown coverages, and us being 5-4. No matter how much a coach stresses it, sometimes young players, and players who may not have the make up to be out there don't receive the message. Pinkel knows how to keep players focused, since his days as an Offensive Coordinator at Washington he has had that job, it's what leads Mizzou to typically being one of the least penalized teams in the nation and one of the best at not giving up the football.
Everyone is calling for Pink's head now, but just wait, I see a lot of similarities between this years team, and the 06 squad. Blown second halves, a young QB, and now we even have the signature bad loss where we just came up short in a comeback (anyone remember Iowa State, losing at the goaline?).
This team though, has more talent than that team did. Blaine led the marches down the field yesterday, throwing all those balls perfectly, and escaping the rush, he really showed a lot yesterday as to how much of a fighter he is. Aldon Smith, Redshirt freshman, nough said. Wes Kemp and Jerrell Jackson have made plays. The secondary is still that unit that worries me and everyone else looking to next year, but perhaps a year more under their belt will help (I'm just searching for hope when it comes to the secondary).[/quote]
jerrell
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Post subject: Re: A REASONED PLEA FOR CHANGE
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 12:21 pm
Quote
At the end of all this, my opinion is - in order for us to get over the hump, we have to upgrade in the off-season at the coordinator level. Pinkel is not the problem IMO. Alden needs to just let him know that sometimes loyalty can be a roadblock in the way of reaching the ultimate goal. Yost and Steckel don't seem to be making the haltime adjustments (needed) to put the players in position to win.
This is the rub. However, respectfully, I just don't see that happening, no matter how much we complain about it. Pinkel has 100% control over football operations, and Alden is not likely to stick his nose in it, particularly given Pinkel's body of work compared to where we were in the 1980's and 90's. Accordingly, although disappointed at times, I find it pointless to get too frustrated over things like this that just aren't in our control. Instead, I'll continue to hope for better times and support our kids. More fun that way.
dgl75
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Post subject: Re: A REASONED PLEA FOR CHANGE
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 12:42 pm
I really thought that Pinkel should have hired coordinators from outside the program instead of promoting from within. I wouldn't mind seeing Alden tell Pinkel he has to make changes kind of like the Rams did with Vermeil before the SB run.
MizzouMarv
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Post subject: Plea
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 12:52 pm
We ALL don't want GP fired; not even close, but we do want to do as well as possible with the talent that we have. 7-5 or 8-4 were the predictions before the season, then we went 4-0 and the forecasts improved to 9-3 or even 10-2, then the 3 game skid and it looked like 8-4. Then the CU win and expectations rose a bit to possibly winning the last 5 (9-3). BUT did anyone in the country see a loss to Baylor? We have better talent, it's a home game with 65,000 fans on a beautiful day; there just are no excuses for that! I listened to the post-game show and Coach Ford said "I don't know what the problem is.". I hear our coaches say "we need to work harder", "we lost focus", "we need to fix that", "we need to get better each week". I never get a feeling like they have a handle on things and know what needs to be corrected. We've been upset numerous times, but have we ever upset anyone (IL doesn't count)? I remember listening to Whitey Herzog and other great coaches and they seemed to know exactly what was going on and what needed to be done to put their teams in the best situations to win. You can't win every game not even every game that you should win, but I don't think our coachs are putting our team in the best situation to win. Maybe our Coordinators are brilliant guys & will grow into their positions, but when you're building a winning program you may not have that luxury.
parsifal
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Post subject: Re: A REASONED PLEA FOR CHANGE
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 13:05 pm
I think there have been reasoned pleas for change since well before the season started.
I think that change should now involve the replacing of assistant coaches, depending on how the rest of the season plays out.
I think (and have thought for a while) that change should involve a move away from the spread offense.
I think that change should involve trusting Gary Pinkel to make the right decisions, the kinds of decisions that, when people wrote him off in the past, led to success and him keeping his job with a vote of confidence.
Maybe Pinkel is a bit averse to changing his program. He changes things too late. The problem is that, with major changes, you don't want to do them when you don't have to do them. We crossed the Rubicon on this issue last night. We're close to the end of the season, so while the villagers have assembled with their pitchforks and torches, it is in their best interests (as well as the best interests of the program) to just wait and see how the season plays-out.
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MizzouMarv
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Post subject: Plea
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 13:58 pm
You're right pasifal, let's don't do things on a knee-jerk. I trust GP to do the right thing even if it's not as fast as the "villagers" want. We jumped at CHANGE on the national level and look what that got us.
zombie59
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Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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Post subject: Re: A REASONED PLEA FOR CHANGE
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 17:22 pm
It appears that some of you posters have been on earth for several years, so if I may be presumptuous I will assume you have worked for companies that continously promoted from within, or at least, known businesses with that philosophy. And what usually happens? No innovation. No fresh ideas. No keeping up with your competition.
You know where this is going. New people bring new ideas. How can the DC and OC be chastised for doing only the things they have learned? If this staff is still here in ten years the Tigers will still be running the spread while the rest of the college nation has switched to new offenses.
I once read that Bear Bryant went to Darrell Royal to learn how to run the wishbone -- BEAR BRYANT for Pete's sake. He wasn't too proud-stubborn-egotistic to learn new ideas, from any expert.
Loyality is an honorable attribute but not when it comes at the cost of fan loyality.
For those of you who do not remember the Dan Devine years, he was a stickler for defense first and that is where his best athletes would play. In the mid-sixties he took a very good running back -- Johnny Roland -- and made him play defensive back until Mizzou got into the red zone, then Roland would be in the offensive backfield. Roland was selected by the St Louis Cardinals in the first round and won rookie-of-the-year, as a running back. Think what he may have done for the Tigers, but Devine had this theory that "if they can't score on you, they can't beat you"> Perhaps Pinkel should concentrate a little more on stopping the enemy. Oh yeah, Johnny Roland was also an All-American.
sportsherm
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Post subject: Re: A REASONED PLEA FOR CHANGE
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 18:34 pm
I was disappointed by two things:
1. Missouri did not run the ball. They didn't even make an effort.
2. The defensive backs still look totally lost in whatever zone scheme Missouri is using. I guess I wonder how many games or seasons it will take to teach these guys this scheme. Perhaps try a different one? Read and react is not working for this group.
Navynuke
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Post subject: Re: A REASONED PLEA FOR CHANGE
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 19:12 pm
I agree that some changes need to be made, but I would caution against getting rid of all of the position coaches. Cornell Ford is a great recruiter and is a major presence in the STL area. He is responsible for the performance of the secondary, but he has the shallowest pool of talent to work with of all of the position coaches IMO. Our secondary is fast and athletic but they do not seem to be "smart" players. That can be from a lack of coaching, but I doubt it. When Gettis is our top DB and is getting beat like a drum, I think that it is a player issue and not a coaching issue.
The secondary is going to be the last position that makes a stride as I think that it is the hardest position to play other than QB and it is the hardest to recruit. I think that in two or three classes MU will have a secondary that will help the team instead of being a liability.
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Wayland
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Post subject: Re: A REASONED PLEA FOR CHANGE
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 21:29 pm
Lee Corso predicted this long ago. -Same ol' same ol' still today.
We all had a 'cow' back in the Brad Smith days.
Then came the short yardage gripes, no running game, etc..
Chase Daniel was the perfect remedy, but the defences even caught up to him in the end.
No we're back to deja vu all over again.
GP is a good guy running a good program. What's his Big XII record? 50% or so? It is what it is. "Change" (or adjustments) are NOT part of the package.
Our low ceiling is NOT overly interesting, except to the extent of how unbelievable it is.
mizzoufootball
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Post subject: Re: A REASONED PLEA FOR CHANGE
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 22:15 pm
Navynuke wrote
It is my firm belief that Pinkel is not going anywhere until after Gabbert graduates. But in the event that he is run out of town, who can MU pursue? The amount of money it would take to get a coach of the caliber most MU fans want is going to be very high. MU is going to be responsible for a severence package for Pinkel as well.
The only coach that I would like to see MU go after in the event that Pinkel leaves is Brent Venables. Unfortunately he will already be a head coach by the time MU makes a move.
I'm hoping James Franklin can come in and give Gabbert a run in spring football. Gabbert isn't even at top 25 QB. Give him some competition and hopefully he can get better. Venables would be a good coach. Heck, I would offer him the job NOW.
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