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House health care bill has nowhere to go in Senate
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beerster
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Post subject: Re: House health care bill has nowhere to go in Senate
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 22:16 pm

jack reacher wrote

coloradosprings wrote

drop the public option, add tort reform, and allow competition across state lines...do all that and Baraak get's to claim health care reform.


That's exactly what every sane person has been asking for from the beginning. Start here and we can work together later on if more changes need to be made.


No actually, you need to accept the public option as every sane person recognizes as being needed to combat predatory business practices of the private insurance companies.

Without your concession on that, there no use in working together as there will be no real reform. It will be business as usual.

Let's keep it like it is. Let the American people see who are not compromising. The Republicans are not. The status quo will only get worse starting next insurance year on Jan 1.

Without the public option, I'd just as soon let it ride. I have health insurance. I can ride it out for a while. Let's watch how the 10.2% unemployed hold up.
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Shadow
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Post subject: Re: House health care bill has nowhere to go in Senate
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 22:17 pm
From this Sunday's New York Times;

Comparing the Health Care Proposals
Lawmakers in the House voted 220 to 215 on Saturday night to approve a sweeping overhaul of the nation’s health care system. Senate Democrats are still working to merge bills from two committees. A look at how the measures compare on some key issues:


Require nearly all Americans to have a minimum level of health insurance or pay a penalty.

*House version
Would include mandate.
Penalty: 2.5 percent of adjusted gross income over a certain level, which is $9,350 for singles and $18,700 for couples.

Exempt those with incomes below the above-mentioned thresholds, American Indians, people with religious objections and people who can show financial hardship.

*Senate Health Committee
Would include mandate.

Penalty: Up to $750 a person a year.
Exempt American Indians and those who can show financial hardship.

*Senate Finance Committee
Would include mandate.

Penalty would be phased in gradually: $200 a person in 2014; $400 in 2015; $600 in 2016; and $750 in 2017.

Exempt American Indians, people with religious objections, those who can show financial hardship, households with incomes lower than 133 percent of the federal poverty level ($29,327 for a family of four) and people who would have to pay more than 8 percent of their income to buy the lowest cost plan available to them.

*White House
Open to a mandate as long as people who cannot afford insurance are exempt. During the campaign, President Obama proposed mandates for children only.

“I am open to your ideas on shared responsibility. But I believe if we are going to make people responsible for owning health insurance, we must make health care affordable. If we do end up with a system where people are responsible for their own insurance, we need to provide a hardship waiver to exempt Americans who cannot afford it.” (Letter to Senate leaders, June 3)

*Interest groups
America’s Health Insurance Plans, the insurers’ lobby, supports individual mandates. But the trade association says the penalties for going without coverage are modest under the Senate Finance Committee’s bill. This creates “a powerful incentive for people to wait until they are sick to purchase coverage,” and could drive up insurance premiums, the group has warned.

Drug companies and insurers could benefit from mandates, which could provide millions of new customers.

Labor unions and consumer groups support mandates for individuals as long as employers are required to help pay for coverage.
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JohnDenny
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Post subject: Re: House health care bill has nowhere to go in Senate
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 22:21 pm

beerster wrote

No actually, you need to accept the public option as every sane person recognizes as being needed to combat predatory business practices of the private insurance companies.


So you're trading liberty for security.
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Kilgore Trout
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Post subject: Re: House health care bill has nowhere to go in Senate
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 22:24 pm
It won't make it out of the senate is another example of the GOP big lie repeated enough and hope it sticks.

Lieberman is a weasel and when faced with the loss of his chairmanship he'll cave and vote for cloture and then the bill just needs 50 votes and V.P. Biden.
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beerster
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Post subject: Re: House health care bill has nowhere to go in Senate
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 22:27 pm

JohnDenny wrote

beerster wrote

No actually, you need to accept the public option as every sane person recognizes as being needed to combat predatory business practices of the private insurance companies.


So you're trading liberty for security.


Actually, I'm trading security for liberty. The public option will free us from an archaic method of health insurance that has become deformed from it's original concept. This current system has caused all of the problems with health care that we face. Tweeking it only enables the private insurance companies to nibble the tweaks away over time as they've been doing for years.
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Man of the West
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Post subject: Re: House health care bill has nowhere to go in Senate
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 22:28 pm

Shadow wrote

I think you all might be missing the most salient point, which is .....

Obama wants it passed before the 2010 elections! So does Pelosi. It's being rushed through the House for that reason, alone. Many Democrat and Republican Senators are not impressed with the glued-together House plan. For the Senate it's more a problematic plan than a political issue.

(At least that's what I've been reading.)


Let me help you and everyone else understand what is really going on. You are on the right track concerning the '10 election - but you have reached the wrong conclusion. The Pelosi bill has no chance in the Senate. None. So why bring it to a vote? Why pass a bill that will never become law? Answer: It isn't about passing and signing a reform bill before the mid term election cycle. It is about re-electing incumbents. By holding the vote, the LIB DEMs from loony left districts can campaign on their "yes" vote for the public option. And, the Blue Dog DEMs from swing districts can campaign on their "no" vote against the public option. THAT is precisely why the vote was held. Look, anytime you want to understand the voting on any bill in Congress, never ask about what is in the bill for Americans. Ask yourself what is in the vote for members of Congress. It is always as simple as that. No exceptions.
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Shadow
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Post subject: Re: House health care bill has nowhere to go in Senate
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 22:34 pm

Man of the West wrote

Shadow wrote

I think you all might be missing the most salient point, which is .....

Obama wants it passed before the 2010 elections! So does Pelosi. It's being rushed through the House for that reason, alone. Many Democrat and Republican Senators are not impressed with the glued-together House plan. For the Senate it's more a problematic plan than a political issue.

(At least that's what I've been reading.)


Let me help you and everyone else understand what is really going on. You are on the right track concerning the '10 election - but you have reached the wrong conclusion. The Pelosi bill has no chance in the Senate. None. So why bring it to a vote? Why pass a bill that will never become law? Answer: It isn't about passing and signing a reform bill before the mid term election cycle. It is about re-electing incumbents. By holding the vote, the LIB DEMs from loony left districts can campaign on their "yes" vote for the public option. And, the Blue Dog DEMs from swing districts can campaign on their "no" vote against the public option. THAT is precisely why the vote was held. Look, anytime you want to understand the voting on any bill in Congress, never ask about what is in the bill for Americans. Ask yourself what is in the vote for members of Congress. It is always as simple as that. No exceptions.


LOL

That's what I said ..... in fewer words, which I "assumed" the readers would comprehend. Judging by your post, my assumption was incorrect.

Rolling Eyes
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Kilgore Trout
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Post subject: Re: House health care bill has nowhere to go in Senate
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 22:36 pm
Of course Man from the west has an outstanding record of predictions so we should believe him in this case.

Health care will pass and the nation will love it. After it has been accepted business will then push for single payer so they can get out of the business of buying insurance for its workers.
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beerster
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Post subject: Re: House health care bill has nowhere to go in Senate
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 22:51 pm

Kilgore Trout wrote

Of course Man from the west has an outstanding record of predictions so we should believe him in this case.

Health care will pass and the nation will love it. After it has been accepted business will then push for single payer so they can get out of the business of buying insurance for its workers.


Exactly,

It will spur job growth as small businesses will be able to compete with large businesses for the talent pool. It will be small companies that will cure our current unemployment problems. Talented entrepreneurs are stuck in companies because they can't work through their health care issues.
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Man of the West
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Post subject: Re: House health care bill has nowhere to go in Senate
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 22:51 pm

Shadow wrote

Man of the West wrote

Shadow wrote

I think you all might be missing the most salient point, which is .....

Obama wants it passed before the 2010 elections! So does Pelosi. It's being rushed through the House for that reason, alone. Many Democrat and Republican Senators are not impressed with the glued-together House plan. For the Senate it's more a problematic plan than a political issue.

(At least that's what I've been reading.)


Let me help you and everyone else understand what is really going on. You are on the right track concerning the '10 election - but you have reached the wrong conclusion. The Pelosi bill has no chance in the Senate. None. So why bring it to a vote? Why pass a bill that will never become law? Answer: It isn't about passing and signing a reform bill before the mid term election cycle. It is about re-electing incumbents. By holding the vote, the LIB DEMs from loony left districts can campaign on their "yes" vote for the public option. And, the Blue Dog DEMs from swing districts can campaign on their "no" vote against the public option. THAT is precisely why the vote was held. Look, anytime you want to understand the voting on any bill in Congress, never ask about what is in the bill for Americans. Ask yourself what is in the vote for members of Congress. It is always as simple as that. No exceptions.


LOL

That's what I said ..... in fewer words, which I "assumed" the readers would comprehend. Judging by your post, my assumption was incorrect.

Rolling Eyes


That not at all what you said. You said Obama and Pelosi want a health insurance plan passed before the 2010 elections. I said Pelosi merely wanted each of the members of her caucus to have on record whichever vote best suited their individual campaigns for re-election. Huge difference. I assumed everyone caught the distinction. Other than your case, I believe my assumption was correct.
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JohnDenny
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Post subject: Re: House health care bill has nowhere to go in Senate
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 22:53 pm

Kilgore Trout wrote

Of course Man from the west has an outstanding record of predictions so we should believe him in this case.

Health care will pass and the nation will love it. After it has been accepted business will then push for single payer so they can get out of the business of buying insurance for its workers.


If it passes it will be with the nuclear option, something that history won't remember kindly in the face of trillions in debt and a worthless currency. But I guess it's "live for the moment" time in DC. They probably figure it's now or never, regardless of 10 percent unemployment and two wars and trillions more already out the door for nothing.

It's nice to know my president thinks of me as an extremist teabagger (substitute real meaning here) for just expressing an diverging opinion while being an otherwise good citizen.

Well, good thing is at least he is now free to make his Afghan troop decision.
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Basil Rathbone
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Post subject: Re: House health care bill has nowhere to go in Senate
Posted: 08 Nov 2009 23:39 pm

Man of the West wrote

Shadow wrote

I think you all might be missing the most salient point, which is .....

Obama wants it passed before the 2010 elections! So does Pelosi. It's being rushed through the House for that reason, alone. Many Democrat and Republican Senators are not impressed with the glued-together House plan. For the Senate it's more a problematic plan than a political issue.

(At least that's what I've been reading.)


Let me help you and everyone else understand what is really going on. You are on the right track concerning the '10 election - but you have reached the wrong conclusion. The Pelosi bill has no chance in the Senate. None. So why bring it to a vote? Why pass a bill that will never become law? Answer: It isn't about passing and signing a reform bill before the mid term election cycle. It is about re-electing incumbents. By holding the vote, the LIB DEMs from loony left districts can campaign on their "yes" vote for the public option. And, the Blue Dog DEMs from swing districts can campaign on their "no" vote against the public option. THAT is precisely why the vote was held. Look, anytime you want to understand the voting on any bill in Congress, never ask about what is in the bill for Americans. Ask yourself what is in the vote for members of Congress. It is always as simple as that. No exceptions.




This coming from the same poster that said this:


Pelosi will not get a bill passed this weekend. She is losing votes in her own caucus faster than she can count them. The health insurance scheme she was hoping for died on Tuesday night. And she knows it. The only goal now it to put on a good show for the left wing loons so they will give campaign contributions next year.


Insightful prediction! That's why I have full confidence in yet another prediction from the same poster.

Hey, the bill that wasn't going to pass last weekend (but did) will definitely not pass the Senate.

Man of the West said it, you can take it to the bank. Laughing
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